Clans in Wyvern

[Salkand]

Since I have twice visited and successfully created clans, as well as having been a member of 3 other clans in the past, I thought I would share my experience on making clans that are more self sustaining.

First, you need to understand that most clans are self destructive. A lot of members leave and become inactive, some leave the clan because it has nothing to offer, while others simply don't care as long as they have their name on the clan list.

Second, you need to understand that a clan must always have something to do, clan events, clan propaganda which is not spamful, wyvern events hosted by said clan. You need to keep people interested in you in order to survive.

Third, no clan can exists by itself. There need to be other clans for you to fight and trade with in order for your own clan to survive. Unfortunately this leads to an interesting problem. In the past clans have waged war on each other with a brutal intent to completely annihilate the enemy clan. The goal was to actually demolish all other clans and take the number one position for themselves.
This is wrong, you need other clans, because clan wars are interesting. They should be fun, competitive, but not brutal. Brutality leads to all clans dying out, while fun leads to a continual clan.

The Problem: How to eliminate inactive members, How to organize events, and how to maintain other clans.

The solutions:

1) Organize special once a months events that are mandatory (because everyone is different, and can't be on at the same time or day, these events should not be dependent on logging into wyvern). Something simple like every months you have to send in your current tnl, or xp, or plans for improvement the upcoming months. Those who don't do this obviously aren't coming back to wyvern in a while. Also, allow members to challenge other members for positions or prizes. Those who do not respond to challenged can more than likely be safely removed from the clan (As long as you give them enough fair time to accept or refuse the challenge). I suggest you make all challenged non-refusable.

This also brings us to a point, clans are meant to help it's members. Organize groups with lower to higher levels for RDing, etc.

2) Organizing events can be simple, like a clan only PK event. The leader(s) will be required to only watch the event as to determine a winner. Because of this it may be necessary for fights to be one V one. They can also include none-wizard related activities. Like writing short stories, drawing pictures, etc, making HoF images for the clan to use, etc.
Having clan only HoF pics will be a good motivator for people to join the clan.

3) Maintaining other clans is difficult. You have no control over another clan, but one thing you can do is to NOT completely destroy and demoralize them. Also, you can make different branches of your own clan.

Example: The clan that I refuse to start, but had plans for was based off of my website (www.freewebs.com/necropoliss/) The idea was that there would be several different Kings to the Necropolis, at few as 5 and as many as 10, also we would always allow for more. Players would be allowed to join any of the kings. They could join me, player B, player A, etc. Each King would in a sense be his own clan, have his own rules, systems, etc. At the same time all the kings would be a part of 1 clan.

This does a few special things. One, it allows you to have clan fights within your own clan, thus making you less self destructive. It also lets you have a measure of control over other clans.

The downside, each clan within your clan would need at least 5 players to be slightly active. At 5 leaders that is 30 players (Counting the leaders).

That is your current entire wyvern database right there. Making this clan system almost non-functional in todays wyvern.

Leaders of clans should always be asking themselves. Why should players join my clan? You can offer a lot. The chance for stories, events, games, levels.

Another thing I would have done with my "clan" Upon joining, each member would be required to submit a short story on how they became an "Undead" The theme for my clan. This would be to provide a background history to the clan, as well as content for the site.

My last piece of advice. . . experiment.

[Rarkvar]

Clans would be a nice add on when it comes down to clan battles and such. I don't like the idea of having more than 5 or 7 players in one clan though. Wouldn't be that cool.

How I imagine this, is basically another word for a group. Except the group doesn't separate after a reboot or someone logs off or something.

Sounds like it would be a fun add-on.

[Bullfrogz]

Originally Posted by Rarkvar

Clans would be a nice add on when it comes down to clan battles and such. I don't like the idea of having more than 5 or 7 players in one clan though. Wouldn't be that cool.

How I imagine this, is basically another word for a group. Except the group doesn't separate after a reboot or someone logs off or something.

Sounds like it would be a fun add-on.

It would Rarkvar, but if it happened in game there should probally be more requirements than that. Like a money fee or something similar, like guildwars, considering how low the player base is.

Either way Salkand isn't talking about an actual feature update but just advice on making a player run clan that isn't official in the game, unlike what your talking about.

[Salkand]

Ok,

I have 2 things I need to do in this post. Number one, explain a new method of making a self-sufficient clan, that is more likely to survive in todays wyvern. Number two, to advertise my own new clan (OMG HE IS AT IT AGAIN).

Ok, another method of making a clan that won't self destruct on itself is to give your clan a purpose that has nothing to do with fighting or killing other clans. Example A "Dragon Hunters" Clan. The goal is to see how many ADs one can kill. . . Rather simple.

Now, my new clan ^_^ *grins evilly* beware Wyvern for a new almighty power had emerged in wyvern! We are known as the Immortals of Wyvern! And we like previously mentioned above have NOTHING to do with other clans!

Seriously, the whole point of my new clan is to write wyvern stories. Although any individual member can PK with other clans if he/she wants. The clan itself does not indorse any competitiveness in wyvern. Because of this I will actually let Wizards join if they want, but let me redefine the word join.

All you have to do to join is write a story and have it accepted. The story has to be about how you character obtained immortality (Except wizards who are already immortal and can write about a subject of their choosing).

There is absolutely no members list. Having your story uploaded to the website is your official acceptance. There are no ranks, no long list of members, etc.

We WILL have an editors list though. You do NOT have to be a part of the clan to be on the editors list. You just have to be willing to have an email on the website and be willing to edit stories that people will send to you. I'll even allow writers to rate their editors.

The website is: www.immortals-of-wyvern.com

[Obscure]

May I comment on your list or maybe help you improve it.

Originally Posted by Salkand

Since I have twice visited and successfully created clans, as well as having been a member of 3 other clans in the past, I thought I would share my experience on making clans that are more self sustaining.

That's awesome. I do not have anything to really say here.

Originally Posted by Salkand

First, you need to understand that most clans are self destructive. A lot of members leave and become inactive, some leave the clan because it has nothing to offer, while others simply don't care as long as they have their name on the clan list.

I think you should mention that most clans die because of lack of motivation. People anywhere usually want to be in a fun environment or somewhere they can have fun. Similar to what some clans offer.

Originally Posted by Salkand

Second, you need to understand that a clan must always have something to do, clan events, clan propaganda which is not spamful, wyvern events hosted by said clan. You need to keep people interested in you in order to survive.

How about debates around the world. Many people like to talk about those things, you could always mention. Example: Debating whether or not to have a change in your clan.

Originally Posted by Salkand

Third, no clan can exists by itself. There need to be other clans for you to fight and trade with in order for your own clan to survive. Unfortunately this leads to an interesting problem. In the past clans have waged war on each other with a brutal intent to completely annihilate the enemy clan. The goal was to actually demolish all other clans and take the number one position for themselves.

This does not really happen often to the majority of clans now or days. I do not think you should put that. Besides, isn't the point of making a clan is to have fun like fighting and not wage war under any circumstances. Unless they are friendly or having a tournament to see who is better.

Originally Posted by Salkand

This is wrong, you need other clans, because clan wars are interesting. They should be fun, competitive, but not brutal. Brutality leads to all clans dying out, while fun leads to a continual clan.

I do not have to comment on this. But, I will say that this lists all the facts.

Originally Posted by Salkand

The Problem: How to eliminate inactive members, How to organize events, and how to maintain other clans.

Wait, I thought the point of this guide was to focus on your own clan. My suggestion is, you should just eliminate "How to maintain other clans." It leads to problems with other clans if you run more than one.

Originally Posted by Salkand

The solutions:

1) Organize special once a months events that are mandatory (because everyone is different, and can't be on at the same time or day, these events should not be dependent on logging into wyvern). Something simple like every months you have to send in your current tnl, or xp, or plans for improvement the upcoming months. Those who don't do this obviously aren't coming back to wyvern in a while. Also, allow members to challenge other members for positions or prizes. Those who do not respond to challenged can more than likely be safely removed from the clan (As long as you give them enough fair time to accept or refuse the challenge). I suggest you make all challenged non-refusable.

I think you should in this guide maybe a tournament once in a while. Tournaments are fun and promote clan activites. You can auction prizes as well.

Originally Posted by Salkand

This also brings us to a point, clans are meant to help it's members. Organize groups with lower to higher levels for RDing, etc.

This is a good point.

Originally Posted by Salkand

2) Organizing events can be simple, like a clan only PK event. The leader(s) will be required to only watch the event as to determine a winner. Because of this it may be necessary for fights to be one V one. They can also include none-wizard related activities. Like writing short stories, drawing pictures, etc, making HoF images for the clan to use, etc.
Having clan only HoF pics will be a good motivator for people to join the clan.

You could add debating, writing music, making music, and talking about a certain topic.

Originally Posted by Salkand

3) Maintaining other clans is difficult. You have no control over another clan, but one thing you can do is to NOT completely destroy and demoralize them. Also, you can make different branches of your own clan.

But again, this will just lead to problems if you start another clan in the first place. I think you should completely remove this section. But, this is just my opinion and we all have our own opinions.

Originally Posted by Salkand

Example: The clan that I refuse to start, but had plans for was based off of my website (www.freewebs.com/necropoliss/) The idea was that there would be several different Kings to the Necropolis, at few as 5 and as many as 10, also we would always allow for more. Players would be allowed to join any of the kings. They could join me, player B, player A, etc. Each King would in a sense be his own clan, have his own rules, systems, etc. At the same time all the kings would be a part of 1 clan.

So, this is squads your talking about. You could add tournaments again.

Example: You could have squads fight each other to determine the superior squad.

Last you can add that you could always keep track of the scores for fun.

Originally Posted by Salkand

This does a few special things. One, it allows you to have clan fights within your own clan, thus making you less self destructive. It also lets you have a measure of control over other clans.

Again, I think you should remove "It also lets you have a measure of control over other clans." That just promotes problems, again. I think you could reword it as "It lets you know which clan is better."

Originally Posted by Salkand

The downside, each clan within your clan would need at least 5 players to be slightly active. At 5 leaders that is 30 players (Counting the leaders).

Not really, I have seen successful squads with only three people in it that were always active. One leader, two members. That is not needed, but it is always nice to be more active.

Originally Posted by Salkand

That is your current entire wyvern database right there. Making this clan system almost non-functional in todays wyvern.

Not true, I think it can be functional. You just need to be a sage and a leader. Anyone can do this, but only a few inspire people to follow in their footsteps.

Example: In a clan I was in, my leader used to draw these nice works of art. Eventually, I started to draw on Starcraft too and got really good as well. I followed in his footsteps because he was a good role model. You could say Rhialto is a role model for many Wyvern artists out there.

Originally Posted by Salkand

Leaders of clans should always be asking themselves. Why should players join my clan? You can offer a lot. The chance for stories, events, games, levels.

I do not have anything to help you out with in this sentence.

Originally Posted by Salkand

Another thing I would have done with my "clan" Upon joining, each member would be required to submit a short story on how they became an "Undead" The theme for my clan. This would be to provide a background history to the clan, as well as content for the site.

But, you should let as many people in as possible. Even if they can not do it, you could always help them to achieve the most they can be.

Originally Posted by Salkand

My last piece of advice. . . experiment.

I will give an example.

Example: Try risks in your clan, but do not break Wyvern's rules. A risk as in host something only half the population will like. If it succeeds keep on going.

I hope I helped you Salkand. Most of this guide was nice, but there were some errors in my opinion that should be fixed. I hope this helps you out.

[Zeofar]

Considering I was along for a considerable part of Salky's clan ride, I've learned a bit with him, and although I'm sure that he will respond to this sometime, I'm just itching to to point out a few things in your comments:

Originally Posted by Obscure

I think you should mention that most clans die because of lack of motivation. People anywhere usually want to be in a fun environment or somewhere they can have fun. Similar to what some clans offer.

Eh, come on pal, that is exactly what he just said.

Originally Posted by Obscure

How about debates around the world. Many people like to talk about those things, you could always mention. Example: Debating whether or not to have a change in your clan.

Tried in the DE and the Coven; in-game debates are underpopulated, debates about non-clan things arise naturally, and leader-started debates can often seem pointless or as if it doesn't matter. It can work if you have a good bunch of quality members, so, it is a nice thought.

Originally Posted by Obscure

This does not really happen often to the majority of clans now or days. I do not think you should put that. Besides, isn't the point of making a clan is to have fun like fighting and not wage war under any circumstances. Unless they are friendly or having a tournament to see who is better.

In the Coven, there weren't many other clans around, which meant that a majority of the members were just the loyal fiends; without other clans to really engage actively with, many other members lost interest. I think that part of the fun part of clans is having rivals that you have feelings about, at least in RP, and "tournaments" don't really capture this as well as a "war." Also, when you have wars instead of tournaments, it adds a sort of clan politics, which is always fun, and was a draw for me when I started into clans.

Originally Posted by Obscure

Wait, I thought the point of this guide was to focus on your own clan. My suggestion is, you should just eliminate "How to maintain other clans." It leads to problems with other clans if you run more than one.

You're missing the point. In the DE, we had many, many different allies and and enemies. Most of them died out very quickly because of internal troubles with lack of interest and inactivity, or were overpowered by us (he talked about dealing with war earlier). He isn't suggesting that you actually run multiple clans(If he meant that, hen he wouldn't have said "other clans", since this guide is about your clan, it would fall under the same thing); He means how to support other clans, even "unfriendly" ones that you are at war with, such that you are able to maintain alliances, wars, and whatever else you have going on, which gives more stability to your own clan as other clans add numerous goals and such, which he mentioned above.

Originally Posted by Obscure

I think you should in this guide maybe a tournament once in a while. Tournaments are fun and promote clan activites. You can auction prizes as well.

He already mentioned that certain things which require players to go on Wyvern at specific times are not helpful in this particular area; it seems that your tournaments might require this, makes them beside the point, even if fun. This one is also mainly about checking for inactive members, which the DE had tons and tons of. His next point is more what you're thinking of. Also, auctioning prizes may be illegal in some cases, so, be careful about that if you start a clan.

Originally Posted by Obscure

But again, this will just lead to problems if you start another clan in the first place. I think you should completely remove this section. But, this is just my opinion and we all have our own opinions.

Like I said earlier, you seem to be missing his point. He isn't talking about making and maintaining two clans at once, but about supporting other clans to create and maintain competition.

Originally Posted by Obscure

Again, I think you should remove "It also lets you have a measure of control over other clans." That just promotes problems, again. I think you could reword it as "It lets you know which clan is better."

You seem to be missing his point yet again; he isn't tying to determine which clan is better, but to foster more activity within your own clan. I'm not sure I exactly understand what he means in the last sentence, though.

Originally Posted by Obscure

Not really, I have seen successful squads with only three people in it that were always active. One leader, two members. That is not needed, but it is always nice to be more active.

Gotta agree with Salky here. That few members just creates isolation, and makes the units to small to be meaningful. Not to mention that everyone has their own things going on, so you can't rely on every member being active. In the later days of the Coven, we had around 10? semi-active members. If he had split them up into three groups, the whole thing would have floundered in all likelihood. Had we went into into two, the chances would have been considerably better.

Originally Posted by Obscure

Not true, I think it can be functional. You just need to be a sage and a leader. Anyone can do this, but only a few inspire people to follow in their footsteps.

Example: In a clan I was in, my leader used to draw these nice works of art. Eventually, I started to draw on Starcraft too and got really good as well. I followed in his footsteps because he was a good role model. You could say Rhialto is a role model for many Wyvern artists out there.

He meant "playerbase." He is referring to the fact that not many people play Wyvern anymore. Your response makes no sense whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Obscure

But, you should let as many people in as possible. Even if they can not do it, you could always help them to achieve the most they can be.

Tried in the DE. You should NOT let as many people in as possible; The DE had over 40( I'm sure it was way over, but I want to avoid going to far since I'm not really sure) at its peak, many of them low-level or mid-level players who stopped paying the game entirely soon after joining, others people who just stopped doing anything with the clan (often those who refused to join the forums, or couldn't understand how), or just lost interest in the clan, which left the actual active clan members at somewhere around 10. These groups often coincided with each other; having them write a story would do something to ensure that they were interested in the clan, were competent enough to write and story and send it in, and give a time-investment which would give a little motivation to stick with the clan and your cool new backstory.

I hope that helps you understand what Salky is saying here.
I also hope that I made no errors in these quotes.
I also hope that what I said about the past clans clans was accurate. Please correct me if I got something wrong, eh Salkand? I'm not that smart, and I have a bad memory, so I'd really like to be enlightened.

[Salkand]

Actually Zeofar, you got most of your information prefect, quite a memory. The only thing was that the DE had well over 40 members, had I not eliminated a lot of inactive members who I hadn't heard from, we would have spanned more than 150 members.