An interesting idea about Paladins

[Salkand]

Ok so, Allow me for a moment to give a dictionary/fantasy definition of a Paladin.

A Paladin is much like a warrior-priest. (or a Holy warrior) they are blessed of the gods and are adapt at casting divine spells as well as fighting using a sword. Of course, Wyvern's paladin class does not cast divine spells and are not given benefits for any mage-class fighting. Unfortunately and despite several ideas regarding this matter, that particular type of paladin is for role playing only. But I digress as that is not the focus of my post.

Now, please indulge me for another rant, as I wish to give a dictionary/fantasy definition of a Death Knight.

A paladin who falls from grace near the moment of death may become a death knight. A undead warrior possessed of unholy powers. Usually created by some evil deity or powerful demon.

So now you understand two opposite types of warriors, I believe you are ready for my suggestions, but before that I would like to make a note.
1. I have not considered this idea in terms of PvP or PvM, so it is natural that it may contain unbalances. I ask that as opposed to claiming the idea as bad, we work to fix it, unless of course you are completely opposed to the idea.

Ok, now I am about to unleash my idea, an idea that as far as I can tell doesn't actually benefit anyone, but is purely for fun!

I propose that when a Paladin falls from grace, instead of being kicked from the guild and losing their benefits, they turn into Death Knights and get new benefits.

Here are just some random thoughts on the submit.
Being Knights of pure evil, they wont be allowed to enter the city of Minath, and many other good cities. I.E. Blackrose, Bura Shaan, and Minath. The cities like New Verdan, Alaria, etc. are too small to probably keep them out.

They should probably get a negative in life magic regardless of what life they had trained. (Meaning if you have 5 life trained you will have -5 life. If you have 20 life trained you will still have -5 life).

It might also make sense to give them a death advantage. *shrugs*

I don't actually propose giving them negatives or benefits, just some thoughts on the subject.

I thank you all for listening and indulging in my mad ramblings.


~Salkand

[Jessikha]

I like the idea of a guild focusing on neglected elements (fire, water, earth, spirit, mind) but I think a Death Knights (I will henceforth refer to it as Necromancers) guild would be better suited as it's own guild in opposition to the paladins. The implications:

-100k gold to join (standard)
-Certain quest to solve to join (standard)
-Players in the Necromancers and Paladins guilds would be constantly in "PK guild" mode against each other. By that, I mean if you saw a paladin in a PK-able place (PK-able places same as the places for PK guild), you could kill them for ranking points among each guild. This would be purely for fun, as is the PK guild. This rivalry would be strictly between the two guilds unless you were in the PK guild too.
- +5 Death Magic
- -5 in all Arts except evocation
- -10 Life Magic
- -10 in all weapons except staves
- +1 in staves for every level up
- +1 meditation for every other level up (1,3,5,7,9)
- +4% mana boost every level for a total of 40% extra mana at level 10
- Necromancers may not wear metal armor, it is too heavy for their frail forms.

Basically, the way I set the bonuses up it's the inverse of the paladins guild. Of course, these are all simply suggestions; I think it'd be a neat idea to give the guild a lot more bonuses, but forbid them to wear amulets, or something of the sort. All simply speculation, of course, as I don't think it's on Rhialto's list to add new guilds any time soon.

[Clubbz]

while I disagree with your changing of the death knights into necromancers, I'll go along with it. They should be granted the use of certain spells which unlike regular spells are all death based and require some hp to cast as well as sp. For example a spell much like destruction which also uses some the casters hp to inflict damage on the foes around you.

[Tensu of the moon]

first off, the Paladins where an elite order of knights serveing Charlamege, who's name I certainly spelt wrong. I believe there where six. any relation to magic or death knights is added in on whatever fantasy setting you heard it on. Paladins cannot by definition become death knights.

second off, necromancers, from necro meaning dead and mancer meaning to divine the will of did not hold rasing the dead among their powers. necromancers spoke with the spirits of the dead to gain information, and could be hired at funerals as professonal mourners. sorcerers raised legions of undead to do their bidding.

third, the water magic class needs to also be good at unarmed combat, so my naga no longer has to choose between mage and monk.

maybe something like:
Aquasage

this fighting style originated in vesmas, in order to keep the town safe from those who keep murdering the innkeeper. due to it's proximity to the deasert and rakasha harmoya, the fighting style was heavily influenced by that of the monks. but instead of focusing on mind magic the Naga of vesmas where atracted to water magic. this slight change has actually radicly affected the style, where as monks get up close and personal, the aquasage is more likely to stay to flooded areas of the map, attacking with water magic at a distance and their bare fists up close. the Aquasage is a defender, a protecter of life. their excursions into dungeons are not for death or treasure, but to gain the experiance they need to protect the world and life from those who do not hold it sacred. becase of this outlook, they also have some skill in life magic. they also do not believe in conjuration, as they feel it is a mockery of life, nor beserking, as in that frenzy one dose not care for living things. Auqasages disdain all weapons less because of the monk origions of their martial arts and more because weapons are crafted with the sole purpose to kill.

-10 to earth, spirit, and air magic
-30 to fire magic
-30 to death magic
-10 to all weapons except unarmed
-20 to conjuration
-30 to beserking
*can't wear metal armor, because it is heavy, and sinks in water, and because it rusts.
*can't used ranged weapons, as they don't fire right underwater.
* loses some air resistance

+1 water magic every level
+1 to life magic at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10
+1 unarmed combat at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10
+1 to dodge at levels 3, 5, and 10
*a small increase to water resistance
*moves at normal speed in water
*immune to drowning

that is all.

[Salkand]

Originally Posted by Jessikha

I like the idea of a guild focusing on neglected elements (fire, water, earth, spirit, mind)

This idea had nothing to do with adding a guild, it was about adding depth to the game, something fun for players and people in the Paladin's guild in general.

Originally Posted by clubbz

They should be granted the use of certain spells which unlike regular spells are all death based and require some hp

I once made a suggestion about adding void magic to the game, which maxed at 15, and required at least 25 trained in death magic to use. The void spells took HP as opposed to SP, but I digress.

Originally Posted by Tensu

first off, the Paladins where an elite order of knights serveing Charlamege, who's name I certainly spelt wrong. I believe there where six.

I am aware where the term paladin derives from, the Paladin I am talking about is in a fantasy sense and does not derive from your reality. Hence everything I said still applies.

I don't even know how we arrived at water magic or another reality approach about necromancers, which if I may. In many cultures necromancer is a different thing. So please don't expect us to believe one fact.

I like the idea of more guilds but if you shall continue to humor me. I once suggested a death knight guild, a post that is now lost somewhere in pollux's forums. This idea was not about adding a guild, although I encourage you to push your idea further, but within a different post of your own evolution.

Originally Posted by Jassikha

Players in the Necromancers and Paladins guilds would be constantly in "PK guild" mode against each other. By that, I mean if you saw a paladin in a PK-able place (PK-able places same as the places for PK guild), you could kill them for ranking points among each guild. This would be purely for fun, as is the PK guild. This rivalry would be strictly between the two guilds unless you were in the PK guild too.

I like that idea, not just like it I love that idea.

[Tensu of the moon]

but you spoke as if by definition, if there are Paladins, there are death knights. I'm not saying a death knight guild is a bad idea, because it isn't. it's a good idea, but it's not like there MUST be one, just because there is a paladin guild.

also, all cultures had pretty much the same definition of necromancer, and I brought up a water guild because someone said there should be one and I agree.

[Salkand]

I never said that if there were paladins there were death knights, nor does a death knight mean he was once a Paladin (you are putting words into my mouth, I hate when people do that).

I am not talking about a death knights guild at all, ignore that. I am trying to give depth and something fun for Paladins. It serves no other purpose than that (Of course neither am I saying a death knights guild is a bad idea, as I did once suggest that).

A water guild would be better served as the mages guild with elemental specialization's. Which shall never happen.

[Tensu of the moon]

sure sounds like you're saying that by definition this and by definition that. I'm not putting any words in your mouth. you said that your post was by definition, when it wasn't at all. I merely pointed this out.

[Jessikha]

Originally Posted by Salkand

I never said that if there were paladins there were death knights, nor does a death knight mean he was once a Paladin (you are putting words into my mouth, I hate when people do that).

I am not talking about a death knights guild at all, ignore that. I am trying to give depth and something fun for Paladins. It serves no other purpose than that (Of course neither am I saying a death knights guild is a bad idea, as I did once suggest that).

A water guild would be better served as the mages guild with elemental specialization's. Which shall never happen.

I suggested the DeathKnights guild because you realistically couldn't have "fallen paladins" in a guild of holy warriors. Hence, I derived off a bit to make a realistic solution to a good idea.

I'm glad you liked my inter-guild PK competition idea; I know I'd have a character in one of the guilds if that ever happened.

[Unknown]

post reply:
-Please i know its going to be a long reading but i do think this could be a fun guild. If i made any typos please send me a mail so i edit the post.-

I do like the idea of a death kings guild. i think what jessikah said was too much magic (i know she told about necromancer and not knights..) oriented and too much conjurer like. I think you could get as death kinght (using jessikah post as reference):

How to enter:
0 gold to join
-Certain quest to solve to join (a quest you need to be neutral alightment to solve, and at the end you have to kill an inocent npc... something that shows how the mind of the knight gets rotten by the lich commands)
- when you join the guild a super Death ray will kill you. (you are able to go back and ress yourself)
-Be an active Paladin
-Players in the Death knights and Paladins guilds would be constantly in "PK guild" mode against each other. By that, I mean if you saw a paladin in a PK-able place , you could kill them for ranking points among each guild. This would be purely for fun, as is the PK guild. This rivalry would be strictly between the two guilds unless you were in the PK guild too.

Negative:
- -5 in evocation.
- 0 Life Magic (max life skill you can have is 0, not matter magical bonnus).
- -5 in fire.
- -16% in fire resistance.
- -10 in find weakness
- - your HP and SP are the same as if you are lvl 1.
- you get hydra speed motion.

Positive:
- +1 in Death Magic at lvls 1, 3, 5 ,7, and 9 giving a total of 5points.
- +12% cold resistance at lvls 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 giving a total of 60%.
- +10% melee resist at lvl 1, 5, and 10 giving a total of 30%
- +6% to death resist for each lvl. giving a total of 60%
- confuse and fear inmunity.
- +1 in swords for every level up.
- +1 in strength for every level up.
- +20 in HP and SP Per lvl. giving a total of 200% (this is equivalent to be lvl 20)

Argument of "why"

-5 in evocation cos as a death knight you are not going to be casting spells that can hurt other players-monsters (you use your sword!).
- 0 in life magic no matter what, cos i think it goes with the guild, this isnt made so you could jost go casting long lasting resist spell.
- -5 in fire cos in most of the rpg games undeath is based on ice, thats also why the -16% in resist fire (also, fire is the most used element by monsters and mages, so it makes the guild a little more balanced taking in consideration other bonnus)
- -10 in FW cos you are a stupid zombie that can no longer have good control of his movement.
- I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF HP-SP reset, cos its like you are born agane, and gives more power to guild lvl over total lvl.
- slow motion for the same reason of -10 in fw.

+ +5 in death magic cos this is a death guild.
+ +60% in cold resist for the same you get -12% in fire resist.
+ +30 in melee resist cos as undeath you no longer feel pain, there less stuffs to cut or pirce, and you are already dead so you fight till you are dust (for me that could be more hp, or melee resist. i think give melee resist could be a nice change)
+ +60% in death resist (be top of the guild is the same as have death pro ammy all the time), you are death, so i think death ray shoudent be a problem for you anymore. also i know this may sound as a great bonnus, but with the new plat armors it isnt that big deal.
+ + confuse and fear resist. as undeath you dont have a mind to be confused, and you are a fearless warrior. (you can get this bonnus using armors, so agane its not that big deal).
+ +10 in sword (guild weapon)
+ +10 in strength, as undeath you can take the remaining of your body to the limit.
+ + 200% in hp and sp. i dont know what to say... i think have the sp and hp that you had at lvl 20 is enough taking in consideration other bonnus the guild is giving (i wanted 250% to be the same as if you are a hofer when you top the guild, but im not sure if that overpower the guildmembers)

About the monkwater guild:

I think (not sure) that if you get under -10 in a element, you can cast negative resist, that could be way to usefull in partys or pk.. si i think you should let -10 as min you get.

[Salkand]

Originally Posted by Tensu of the moon

sure sounds like you're saying that by definition this and by definition that. I'm not putting any words in your mouth. you said that your post was by definition, when it wasn't at all. I merely pointed this out.

Wrong again, I gave a brief definition of a fantasy paladin and death knight so as to make everyone better understand them. We can now move on from defining anything, as it is established, and I am not going to continue with it just to help one person.

Originally Posted by Jassikha

I suggested the DeathKnights guild because you realistically couldn't have "fallen paladins" in a guild of holy warriors. Hence, I derived off a bit to make a realistic solution to a good idea.

when ones falls from the guild they are no longer in the guild. Hence they are in every sense of the words a fallen-Paladin.

Originally Posted by unknown

I do like the idea of a death kings guild. i think what jessikah said was too much magic (i know she told about necromancer and not knights..) oriented and too much conjurer like. I think you could get as death kinght (using jessikah post as reference):

Unfortunately that is not the idea, it is a good idea but belongs in it's own post, and I encourage Jessikha to run with it.

[Jessikha]

Originally Posted by Salkand

when ones falls from the guild they are no longer in the guild. Hence they are in every sense of the words a fallen-Paladin.



Unfortunately that is not the idea, it is a good idea but belongs in it's own post, and I encourage Jessikha to run with it.

I'm not saying your idea is wrong, I just think that when they fall from the guild, they should get their own seperate Death Knights guild. Maybe I read the original post wrong, but it sounded like the fallen-paladins would stay in the paladins guild. Here's the quote you said that caused the misunderstanding:

I propose that when a Paladin falls from grace, instead of being kicked from the guild and losing their benefits, they turn into Death Knights and get new benefits.

No worries, we cleared it up. A simple misunderstanding.

[Tensu of the moon]

Originally Posted by Salkand

I wish to give a dictionary/fantasy definition of a Death Knight.

A paladin who falls from grace near the moment of death may become a death knight. A undead warrior possessed of unholy powers. Usually created by some evil deity or powerful demon.

there's you saying by definition this and that. don't tell me I'm wrong, or that I'm putting words in your mouth. it was the second paragraph of your first post.

[Penny]

Actually, that idea might benefit me (someday). I was thinking of making a sword and vampire blade user. I don't know about the whole having to join the paladins guild and then get kicked out thing though.

"first off, the Paladins where an elite order of knights serveing Charlamege"

You mean Charlemeign? rofl. That makes me kind of hate paladins a bit. Just a bit... They seem violent and corrupt now.
But it seems to me like you're using technical, real-world definitions. And if you want to play the game like that then medusas are baby jelly fish and hydras are also cnidarians... with zero heads instead of five.
I like your naga guild idea though.

[Salkand]

Originally Posted by Tensu of the moon

there's you saying by definition this and that. don't tell me I'm wrong, or that I'm putting words in your mouth. it was the second paragraph of your first post.

Tensu, leave my post and do not come back. I said we are not arguing about a definition, the point of which only one person can completely understand, and that is me not you as I am the one with intent when it was written.

Originally Posted by salkand

I wish to give a dictionary/fantasy definition of a Death Knight

If you want the dictionary definition, then yes. The fantasy definition, then shut up and accept it.


Now I must make a few things known for jessikha. I must apologize as that was my fault, I miss-worded the sentence, they are still ejected from the guild, but become Death knights, etc etc.

[Tensu of the moon]

first off, if you did not want the dictionary defintion, you should not have said dictionary/fantasy. you should have just said fantasy. second, since the death knight dose not appear in mythology, there is no set way a death knight should be. I've seen death knights who where undead and seath knights who where alive and kicking, death knights who fought with brute force and death knights who use only magic, death knights who always fought on foot and death knights who never dismounted. death knights that where oppisite to paladins/templars/etc. and death knights who did not associate with them even as enimies. there is no definition for death knight.

don't tell me you're right because you say so. in this day and age you need evidence. and don't tell me not to post. if you did not want to discuss this you should not have brought it up.

if you don't want to debate this, either admit fault or drop it.

[Salkand]

I have now added tensu of the moon on my ignore list, as far as I am concerned she is no longer allowed in any of my post.

Anyway, to take this idea further. It might be interesting for all guilds to have a good/bad side, which are in constant PK against each other.

[Jessikha]

Edit: Ignoring argument completely.

As for the death knight idea, what do you think would be an ideal set-up for guild bonuses? Anyone is free to give their 2 cents, but Salkand's is the one I specifically want to see. It's something to build off of.

[Salkand]

My original post (A few years ago) about death knights didn't give them bonuses, I gave them 20 guild only spells, You got 10 per guild level and 10 for obtaining certain actual levels.

Meaning at lv 30 you unlocked the last guild spell. The spells all helped fight with a sword in one way or another.

I had some that made you do 2x/3x/4x damage, some that gave you resistance, etc.

If I were to speak tradition bonuses, for a death knight I would say
+1 sword per guild level
+1 death every other guild level
+10% mana
-10% Hp
The natural ability to see invis.

Strong against cold
Weak to fire

something like that.

For necromancers, if that is how you want to go.
+50% mana
-50% Hp
+1 death magic per guild level
-1 life magic per guild level.
Strong against death and fire
Weak against cold and life (knowing there aren't any life offense).

[Tensu of the moon]

Originally Posted by Salkand

I have now added tensu of the moon on my ignore list, as far as I am concerned HE is no longer allowed in any of my post.

Anyway, to take this idea further. It might be interesting for all guilds to have a good/bad side, which are in constant PK against each other.

Salkland seems to have made yet another misculculation.

fixed.