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  #1  
Old 04-19-2008, 07:24 PM
Godhand Godhand is offline
 

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Default More Freedom in Wyvern

I think this game really lacks freedom, small things like not being to pick up items on the ground, being able to offer items at the price you want, there are restrictions on everything, can't even pk another pk guildember in most places, can't casts spells in town, from what I have seen, wizards get involved way to much, even in minor situations.

Wyvern is not a family game. Graphical muds are not the type of games that little kids like to play. Almost all of the people playing this game are over the age of 13. Wyvern has gotten a lot better than it used to be in the past, but the player base is only a fraction of what it used to be, because there is a lot less freedom now. All these restrictions on everything really take the fun out of the game. Should Wyvern let the players have more freedom? what do you guys think?
  #2  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:38 PM
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Overall, I agree with your sentiments.

However, as I see it, wyvern will continue to become more restrictive, because it seems that that is the sort of game that Rhialto would like it to be.

One reason I don't really play much anymore is that I find no reason to spend time on on something that is changing away from things I value.


You could think of games like these as almost having an alignment. Wyvern would be considered quite "lawful" (every aspect of what you do has rules of what you can and cannot do. In addition, not doing what you "should not" do is also expected of you), while a game such as crossfire would be considered quite "chaotic" (Anything goes expect for some mild decency standards [if even that]. Find a bug? Report it, then take advantage of it while you can).

It should be said that each way of leaning for a game has many upsides and downsides.

I myself heavily value the "chaotic" side of the spectrum, and tend to find lawful games less fun. This is probably the result of my "open source/notsolegal" electronic self upbringing.
  #3  
Old 04-19-2008, 11:45 PM
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I agree about the wizards interfering too much. The rules say they're supposed to avoid interference.
  #4  
Old 04-20-2008, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post
Wyvern is not a family game. Graphical muds are not the type of games that little kids like to play. Almost all of the people playing this game are over the age of 13.
Excuse me?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhialto
Why did my game go offline? Not for want of popularity. It's a pretty successful game for a mostly part-time effort from one person. I've had over a quarter million individuals try it out (at least getting as far as creating a character), and tens of thousands of people who've spent countless hours playing it over the years. It's won awards and been featured in magazines; it's attracted the attention of game portals, potential investors, and whole schools full of kids.

Yup, kids. It was supposed to be a game for college students, but it's been surprisingly popular with teenagers and even pre-teens, who you'd think would be off playing some 3D console game or other. But I wrote it for myself, and apparently there are sufficient people who like the same kinds of games I do to create a sustainable community.
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html

I'll take his word over yours.
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  #5  
Old 04-20-2008, 01:25 AM
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First of all you must understand why the rules are in place. Rhialto does not want players to be able to help their alternate characters, and the only way to do that is to limit things such as Picking up items, giving items to other players, Etc.

Some rules like the max and min on items are so people don't sell valuable items to their friends for cheap. Or making a price too much and giving an unfair deal to another player.

The rules are not set just because, each one is for a reason. If the wizards find a way to prevent people from helping their alts, maybe they will put giving items back, maybe not. You just have to roll with the punches.
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  #6  
Old 04-20-2008, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny View Post
I agree about the wizards interfering too much. The rules say they're supposed to avoid interference.
Here's the exact rule:

1. Don't intervene unless it's absolutely necessary.
Players should learn how to settle disputes on their own, and they shouldn't consider wiz intervention an entitlement. Generally speaking, the less wiz intervention there is, the better.

Firstly, I find this extremely amusing coming from you who was just going on about wizards not doing anything about an argument in shouts at 2 AM in the morning (chances are we weren't watching and missed the whole thing, but still, the fact that you were complaining that we didn't do something when now championing this rule is a great bit of hypocritical behavior). Secondly, you interperted the rule improperly. It has to do with intervening (not interfering) in player disputes which do not cross a line into breaking rules. We follow this rule strictly and repeatedly ignore little quibbles between you people and only say something when it turns into flaming, spam, harassment, etc. In which case we usually just ask the parties involved to continue it privately unless it's really over the line. While you may think the times we do get involved (in an adminstrative aspect) are too much, they are always because a rule has been broken and as such we are staying true to the rules which you do not understand.
  #7  
Old 04-20-2008, 09:57 PM
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  #8  
Old 04-20-2008, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Here's the exact rule:

1. Don't intervene unless it's absolutely necessary.
Players should learn how to settle disputes on their own, and they shouldn't consider wiz intervention an entitlement. Generally speaking, the less wiz intervention there is, the better.

Firstly, I find this extremely amusing coming from you who was just going on about wizards not doing anything about an argument in shouts at 2 AM in the morning (chances are we weren't watching and missed the whole thing, but still, the fact that you were complaining that we didn't do something when now championing this rule is a great bit of hypocritical behavior). Secondly, you interperted the rule improperly. It has to do with intervening (not interfering) in player disputes which do not cross a line into breaking rules. We follow this rule strictly and repeatedly ignore little quibbles between you people and only say something when it turns into flaming, spam, harassment, etc. In which case we usually just ask the parties involved to continue it privately unless it's really over the line. While you may think the times we do get involved (in an adminstrative aspect) are too much, they are always because a rule has been broken and as such we are staying true to the rules which you do not understand.
I wasn't just talking about arguments. And what goes on at those times is clearly against the rules. There are too many situations where players who didn't even really break the rules get in trouble, and too many situations where people who clearly did break the rules over, and over again get away with it.
And I wasn't complaining so much as informing you guys. You were claiming that there are ALWAYS wizards online, but that doesn't seem likely. Usually, even if wizards are busy, they'll notice the chaos in shouts within about an hour.
Arilou, you're actually not too bad about breaking this rule. I guess I should've been more specific about who is doing this. Some wizards do a very good job of following this rule, but others fail epicly.
  #9  
Old 04-20-2008, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny View Post
I wasn't just talking about arguments.
Which is the point. You referenced the rules to better state your case. However, the only rule which restricts wizard intervention has to do with arguments (that do not break a rule).

Quote:
Usually, even if wizards are busy, they'll notice the chaos in shouts within about an hour.
Usually, but not always. There are a varity of reasons something going on in shouts will go unnoticed. Sometimes a wizard will have earmuffs on. Sometimes a wizard will have the chat box set to not scroll for some reason or another (i.e. At times I'm trying to read text related to an area I'm testing and this makes it easier - When done I try to briefly scroll through whatever shouts occured during this time, but I may just click auto scroll and let it bring me to the newest shout). Other times we will be switching between windows and the incident came and went in the time we were away (we can stay logged in without being booted for an hour so we are often in other windows for long periods of time) and no recent mention was made of it so it goes unnoticed...or we'll just click on the client window so as to avoid being logged out and switch back and forth so quickly that shouts did not have time to register. These last two things happen with me quite a bit. There are times when I'll be away and catch something many minutes after it happened thanks to a conversation going on about it after the fact or because I happen to scroll up and notice it. Other times I catch it days later as I leave my client opened a lot and may happen upon something when scrolling back to look for something else. Or I get a report that something happened at a time when I was logged in so I scroll through it to see what I missed (in which case I make a note to deal with the players involved once I see the shouts). But there are no doubt a lot of things that slip by and for that reason we have the warning system.

Speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time logged in during the night, I know first hand how easy it is to miss things going on in those early hours. You'd think with less players shouting that wouldn't be the case, but there are also less wizards around so rather than scrolling through everything to see what was said in wiz-tells while you were working in another window and spending longer periods of time on the client just chatting in wiz-tells you end up spend quite a bit of solo time just working (plus, during the day, it's likely that one wizard out of those that are online won't be idle when something happens thus things get caught more then when there are only one or two wizards online). Meanwhile you leave yourself logged in mostly because you can and while you have the option to test something should you need to, that doesn't come up very often. Of course, there are times when I like to take short breaks to see what's going on in the game, but there are also times when I get caught up in what I am doing and can't be bothered with what's going on in shouts.
  #10  
Old 04-21-2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Which is the point. You referenced the rules to better state your case. However, the only rule which restricts wizard intervention has to do with arguments (that do not break a rule).



Usually, but not always. There are a varity of reasons something going on in shouts will go unnoticed. Sometimes a wizard will have earmuffs on. Sometimes a wizard will have the chat box set to not scroll for some reason or another (i.e. At times I'm trying to read text related to an area I'm testing and this makes it easier - When done I try to briefly scroll through whatever shouts occured during this time, but I may just click auto scroll and let it bring me to the newest shout). Other times we will be switching between windows and the incident came and went in the time we were away (we can stay logged in without being booted for an hour so we are often in other windows for long periods of time) and no recent mention was made of it so it goes unnoticed...or we'll just click on the client window so as to avoid being logged out and switch back and forth so quickly that shouts did not have time to register. These last two things happen with me quite a bit. There are times when I'll be away and catch something many minutes after it happened thanks to a conversation going on about it after the fact or because I happen to scroll up and notice it. Other times I catch it days later as I leave my client opened a lot and may happen upon something when scrolling back to look for something else. Or I get a report that something happened at a time when I was logged in so I scroll through it to see what I missed (in which case I make a note to deal with the players involved once I see the shouts). But there are no doubt a lot of things that slip by and for that reason we have the warning system.

Speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time logged in during the night, I know first hand how easy it is to miss things going on in those early hours. You'd think with less players shouting that wouldn't be the case, but there are also less wizards around so rather than scrolling through everything to see what was said in wiz-tells while you were working in another window and spending longer periods of time on the client just chatting in wiz-tells you end up spend quite a bit of solo time just working (plus, during the day, it's likely that one wizard out of those that are online won't be idle when something happens thus things get caught more then when there are only one or two wizards online). Meanwhile you leave yourself logged in mostly because you can and while you have the option to test something should you need to, that doesn't come up very often. Of course, there are times when I like to take short breaks to see what's going on in the game, but there are also times when I get caught up in what I am doing and can't be bothered with what's going on in shouts.
That's beside the point. It doesn't matter what people to break the rules when they don't get in trouble; that's the exact opposite of the point of this topic. This is when wizards don't intervene because they don't even know what's going on.

Lol, I understand Arilou, really. I'm not complaining about wizards not catching this stuff, I'm just pointing it out. What I am complaining about is getting muted and having no idea why, then getting muted again when I ask about it. But, like I said, you're not the one, or even one of the ones, that I have this problem with.
  #11  
Old 04-21-2008, 07:53 AM
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Teshuvah Teshuvah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny View Post
What I am complaining about is getting muted and having no idea why, then getting muted again when I ask about it. But, like I said, you're not the one, or even one of the ones, that I have this problem with.
You are fully aware of why you get muted. You have been warned more times than I can count in tells for multiple offenses and silenced multiple times also. Logging on an alt to get around a mute (or any punishment) to ask questions about punishments in shouts gets you muted/silenced/banned again per the rules.
If you have a question about why you are punished (which I cant imagine you would have, honestly) you need to ingame mail the wizard who punished you, not shout about whatever the punishment may be.

Also, just because you don't see things done in public to other players does not mean they weren't punished/warned. You will rarely know what was done to other players unless they care to share it with you.

But this forum is also not the place to bring up complaints about personal punishments. As one of the threads tells you. If you have problems, ingame mail that wizard.

Tesh
  #12  
Old 04-21-2008, 06:44 PM
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This has sadly turned into a non productive thread. So I am locking it after moving and deleting posts.
Please feel free to begin another with valid suggestions and ideas as was started.

Tesh
 


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