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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players. |
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#1
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Nerfs/upgrades all around wyvern
You will see a lot for mages, of course, I'm a mage.
Halflings-give them 3 skills per level. (let the old players keep their 4). A halfling gets just as many bonuses as any of the other races and still gets 4skills per level? Mages- Should have -10 in all forms of melee. A mage is meant to dedicate himself to magic right? Then why do people get to join mages as a meleer, get no disadvantages and several promises bonuses. Mages- Negative strength, a mage is not suppose to be strong, so possibly a -1 or 2 in strength. Mages-More mage only armor, such as dark/red/blue/light (etc) fancy gloves. Which gives +1 or 2 in (dark=death, red= fire, etc.). Or earings of (blank) magic, which give +1 in a element, or possibly arts. Mages-Elite Wizard's cap. Same bonuses as a wizard's cap, except it gives +3 to all the arts instead of +2, and 30 mana instead of 20. Maybe make it so you have to be an archmage to use it, or a quest to obtain it. Elves/archers-More speed (Not too much, but a little more) The ability to Hide while in forested areas? (meh). Arrows in general need to do more damage, maybe have arrows that seek targets? Archers-More Archer only weapons/armor. Cavemen-(HAHAHA your magenta!) -10 lore, cmon, a stupid caveman shouldn't be casting complicated spells. Nagas-(HAHA pink)Either fix the double kill bug and save us PKers some points. Or lower their attack speeed so it doesn't happen! Nagas-The Dragon form should be able to cast a dragon breath. Not a weak one, but not an overly powerful one either. It doesn't get stronger based on anything, or any skills. But requires no reagents. (When I say dragon breath I don't mean a standard fire breath. As a green dragon, maybe they spit acid? *shrugs*) Resist-I have less than 70% resist for water on salkand. I can survive Krayzee's powerful blizzards. I can survive any monters water spells, even a mass attack. So why is 90% resist, which makes a lot of mage spells useless, again, why 90%? Lower max resist to 75% Raksasha-Give some strength bonuse, they live a tough primal life don't they? A little faster and some stealth. Dwarves/axemen-Make dwarves more sturdy and able to take more physical damage. More axeman only armor/weapons. Most guilds-10 in lore. Excludes ranger conjurers (not whipman). Paladin-Give devin spells that do not run off Lore. (see my suggestion pretaining to paladins devine spells). That's it, I think Humans/pixies/giants are the most balanced race, hence why I didn't mention them. After them come (again in my opinion) raksasha's, halflings, , dwarves. Then there are Nagas which would be close to being balanced, except they attack too fast as hydras, compared to how hard it is to resist melee. Guilds are iffy, all the guilds have things that could be tweaked. I tried to include a bonuse for each nerf I suggested. If I didn't I either felt that item didn't need a bonuse, or nerf, Etc.
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“You put the Devil on the other side, and I will come to fight.” - Royce Gracie |
#2
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Just some feedback, and my opinion....
"Halflings-give them 3 skills per level. (let the old players keep their 4). A halfling gets just as many bonuses as any of the other races and still gets 4skills per level? " - Salkand I agree absolutely.... With the use of mana shield halflings will outhealth humans, their 4 skill/level counterpart... halflings get the most abilities.... halflings are by far the most overpowered race at higher levels.... .... Feedback on mages: I agree that mages need more mage only armour. I disagree with the -10 in melee though.... but more about that later. I agree with negative strength, and I propose the mana gain is equal to paladins health gain... 70 % instead of 50 %... but in exchange you lose 2 -3 strength. .... Archer: Archers guild should get a bonus to Air magic. +5 instead of -5. That would fix them, and give them a bit more of a balancing ..... Cavemen: I agree. -10 in lore. This guild isn't meant for casting spells and they get more hp than any other guild. ..... Naga: Hydra needs nerfed. No reason tapping a hydra should overkill you 3 times. .... Resists: Agreed. Resists are too strong at 90 %.... The only issue is... if you notch it down, what about recoil monsters? If you make 75 % the max and you're taking more damage to spells but you stay magically safe from recoil it would unbalance this game ..... Raks / axemen: Raks are all right as they are. I see no issue with buffing or nerfing. Axemen are balanced as they are, I see no reason to buff or nerf. .... Palladin: Paladins are balanced as they are. I see no reason to introduce anything new. .... Hybrid build: Theres been a lot of talk recently, whether or not influenced by my build, about hybrids and guilding. I believe that, for the sake of trying new things in the game, and encouraging new hybrid build... that there be ways for them to achieve at the same levels as those who go after melee/magic. For example, if you DO nerf guilds in such a way hybrids won't gain anything... then make a new guild or series of guilds. Proposed guilds: Spellsword: These mystic swordmen are well known for their ability to use some melee while keeping a few spells at their reach. Guild bonus: 2 % more hp every level 2 % more sp every level 10 th level = 20 % hp + 20 % sp 200 hp char = 40 hp gain 200 sp char = 40 sp gain Reason: a total of 40 %... this is less than the guilds who follow one path but it also allows the freedom and balance of a hybrid. -10 in whips, axes, range, etc except swords (obvious reasons) +1 in swords at level 1, level 6, and level 10 The point of this guild is to leave the player space to work the build without giving too many bonuses. The bonuses aren't many but they do help ...... Magic Bowman: A mage-archer who relies on speed and defense to overcome their enemies. Guild Bonus: -10 in all melee and weapons except ranged 2 % hp per level 5 % sp per level 200 hp level 10 th: 20 % = 40 hp 200 sp level= 10 / 50 % = 100 sp +1 to bows at level 1, 5, 10 Arcticwind |
#4
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Although if they can cast life based spells without using mana, then that'd something useful. All in all, your suggestions obviously leaned towards mages with the same builds as poor ol' salkand and making it harder for every other mage build and other guilds/races to survive/exist. Nice try, but if I can see through it...chances are wizard are only gonna laugh the attempt |
#5
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Ok king of lack-wits. First, this post is old, outdated, and no longer relevant. Second, most of the mage ideas were negatives that severely effect me. Lastly, See my divine spell idea for a list of divine spells.
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“You put the Devil on the other side, and I will come to fight.” - Royce Gracie |
#6
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And, as for those suggestions that "severely effect you", 2 or 4 are negative, 1 affects you...unless you currently use melee And, if this forum is no longer relevant...then ignore it and all new posts in it |
#8
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I agree 100% with anatil. (about salkand suggestion...). Also i think its needed to add, mages do get - bonnus in melee... they have -5.
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2008-06-14 12:58:18 Deathwish – killed by a poisonous Xipe Totec corpse |
#9
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:O They get - five in a broken skill! OH NOES!
Almost as good as the hurled skill being given out as guild bonuses.
__________________
"Big Brother in the form of an increasingly powerful government and in an increasingly powerful private sector will pile the records high with reasons why privacy should give way to national security, to law and order [...] and the like." - Justice William O. Douglas "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security would deserve neither and lose both." -Benjamin Franklin |
#10
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The melee skill isn't broken.
You just can't train it. |
#11
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Elven Archers need:
1. Magic bolts! (the various guilds and merchants only sell magic arrows) 2. Some way to heal.. (extra lore bonus? extra heal skill bonus?) 3. Some way of doing MORE extra damage to make up for how weak we are. (Mages cause more damage AND to an entire area for less effort) Possible solutions.. better bows, better arrows, the abillity to cast enchant weapon on arrow bundles, range skill to have more effect, arrow damage in general to go a notch up, arrows moving faster, elves getting 3.5 skill points per level, archer bracers or bracelets?, elf only items.. I love playing an elven archer.. but it stinks that it takes a a long time to kill anything or complete a level when a comparable meleer or mage with comparable equipment could just come in and wipe out the area in much less time. Also.. we need a way to be able to RD.. this is a huge detraction from elven archers. Mages drop a bomb, meleers just fight it.. archers can try to run in circles but usually die or run away. So yeah.. we can't RD as well, we can't quest as well but we have Jars of Fireflies! Pretty much forcing elves to be merchants. ? Nah.. there has to be some benefit in choosing a straight elven archer path. Currently there is none. You have to deviate the path somehow to make it work within the game.. and that's wierd. "Archer: Archers guild should get a bonus to Air magic. +5 instead of -5. That would fix them, and give them a bit more of a balancing" Thats a nice thought. Elven archers don't really use air magic that much though that I can think of. Last edited by Beckhan : 07-03-2008 at 07:02 PM. |
#12
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I gotta tell ya, I just made an archer high elf to see how "Bad" it was as told by several players. And frankly, It aint bad at all. I RD'd the entire time. So you cant RD is a load of hooey. I was totally archer other than 3 sword skill. healing is easy. Natural healing and mana shield and mana potions.. done. Amazing ability to kill from a distance and not destroy your loot. The only problem i found was my pinky hurt holding down the shift key to fire with my arrow keys on my laptop..easy to fix if i felt like making the time to alias other keys for firing. So Im sorry but the archers are weak scenerio no longer cuts is in my book. Are halfling archers even easier? Yes, but that doesnt change the fact that I got an elf archer to level 20 in no time at all with plenty of money and items. And I could have hof'ed it equally fast. Nope. It wasnt that hard. Would it be hard if it was your very first character ? Surely, just like a pixie is nearly impossible for a first time player. and a mage for first time players is a challenge too. Are archers more of a challenge then "push your character into the monster to kill it, repeat"? yes. Does that make them weaker? not by a long shot. Didnt take me long to kill anything except reapers and that was easy enough to avoid them. So yes mages fill up a screen, they also destroy all their loot among other things. Do archers need a few better weapons? Yes and they've gotten them repeatedly over the years, ember/glacier weapons , all the elemental arrows in the guild shop and now plat bolts. I'd say archers have a fair share of good weapons now vs melee that has only diamond , elec or plat/jewel So that's my two cents now that Ive deleted above mentioned archer with a fond "nope, you werent' that hard at all". T |
#13
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not too hard cause you're awesome.. apparantly. :D
Lol.. Shot down!
"healing is easy. Natural healing and mana shield and mana potions.. done." yeah thats the route I take too. "I RD'd the entire time. So you cant RD is a load of hooey." ??? I must be missing something because as soon as I see a bunch of (fill in the blank nasties) at the bottom of a 20+ staircase I'm dead if I don't hole or DC. Then again, you're writing this stuff so you no doubt know exactly how to dress. still I don't see how it's possible/feasable. "Are halfling archers even easier? Yes" There's my main point. Certain races are designed to be better with certain classes. There's nothing that elves are best/easiest at. In my mind understanding of the wizards "balance" creedo, there should be more synergy to balance that. If you are an elf you should not be able to be great at everything but you should be able to create the best of something. "Ive deleted above mentioned archer with a fond "nope, you werent' that hard at all"." May not have been that hard for you, but it's still not balanced, nevermind the power combo an elven/archer should be. My first char is/was a stone/cavie totally **** I know. But still after having played both If I go back and spruce him up with equal value gear at an equal level the stonie would be easier, stronger, better in almost everyway. We're probably not going to see eye to eye on the balance issue so I'm not trying to beat a dead horse.. but thanks for the conversation and having looked into it anyway. |
#14
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You're right, balanced does not mean equal/the same. If we did that, why bother with different races? Just make them identical and change the pictures? Races are never going to be equally powerful. But I did want to see how bad archers were and they just werent that bad if it wasnt your first character. (which, as I said can be said of many race/combos) The Monsters on RD stairs thing.. gotta be creative, but you can do it. I did not say I didnt die I just said its not hard. Try a pixie until level 20 you do nothing but die ! over and over and over lol and many other race/combos have the same RD stairs issue btw. T |
#15
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A low level archer in a low level RD does just fine. You can run around, and not die instantly. I agree, that this isn't bad at all, in fact, I enjoy it at low levels.
A high level archer in a high level RD is another story entirely. You have to be able to resist all spells (fire, cold, instant death of all forms, movement hindering spells, etc), can't run because everything is bigger than an xbox, and quite often die instantly the moment you click the stairs. An archer depends on information, and movement. Remove one of those and you have a place that's no fun. For that class anyway. I'd normally say, that RD's are just fine, no problem with forcing players to team up, but I've found that grouping (especially in a tile based game) is really kinda awkward and frustrating. Mages have it slightly better off here, as they can fire and forget, and not get in the way of whatever meleer is holding back that nasty thing. Archers have to see or know where that nasty things is to do anything. Plus only LQ monsters last long enough for us to actually shoot something before a melee plows through them. All in all, we get in the way more than help. :S Personally, I think the archer class will slowly be fixed as a result of other things being fixed. Ever play crossfire? If you have, you'll notice that RD's have many different "designs" and kinds of layouts. I'll bet you 10bux that Rhialto would eventually like different dungeons. Things like that will slowly, but over time vastly change the way Archers roll (and not only for just archers). The biggest things that will really effect archers will be the fixing of find traps, forestry, and Quivers of returning. *wink* "Balance" in an unfinished game is laughable, ever changing, and something that should only really be dealt with if something is way off. Every time something changes, it is possible that it could break or make a bunch of things. Of course, I have a very Laissez-faire or "throw it all together and fix it when you have everything you want" attitude toward games. So don't take me too seriously. |
#16
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On the topic of balance..
Logwad, love hearing from your experience.
Taken from the player manual.. (I think this is Rhialto's definition of balance): Each race should be: "..approximately equally powerful at any given level, but they specialize in different ways. (You wouldn't want to be a Stone Giant spellcaster or a Pixie warrior, for example). " Elven/archers are able not to destroy loot. That seems to be thier only advantage. Mages do more damage and targets move so they win the ranged game. Elven Archers cannot cast resist well enough (lack of skills and guild negs) and cannot take hits like a meeleer so they loose the defense game. Humans (who are the great multiclassers) and Halflings (sneaky buggers) both make better archers than elves (whats a few extra in ranged and forretry vs 25 extra skill in whatever you want ?) So elven's chosen specialty doesn't even line up. It should be according to that definition that if you are an elf archer you should be extra powerful, moreso than any other race at an archer because that's thier specialty. As it is.. elves tend to be slightly worse at everything and archers guild tends to make a weak player. Next I'm gonna be a rouge and really start crying. Side note on feast day I finally folowed high level LQ's all the way through! It was fun. I can't see how it's possible for an archer at any level to win a high level monster LQ battle. (have you Logwad?) I did get some xp for killing smaller monsters and the adventure was great fun.. but no love on the big guys even though I got allot of shots in. (emptied my quiver and then some!) |
#17
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OK. <<waves a paw, smearing Beckhan into a rouge smear on the floor>> That work?
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Are you dead yet? |
#18
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He does smell fantastic!
__________________
"Big Brother in the form of an increasingly powerful government and in an increasingly powerful private sector will pile the records high with reasons why privacy should give way to national security, to law and order [...] and the like." - Justice William O. Douglas "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security would deserve neither and lose both." -Benjamin Franklin |
#19
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Don't worry Beckhan, I know things might seem tough right now, but life becomes a whole lot better when you finally let all the despair sink in and stop wanting to change things for the better. ^_^ Last edited by Logwad : 07-05-2008 at 11:39 AM. |
#20
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As usual, my opinion differs from others greatly. Archers are not easy. There are many hurdles to overcome in how you play. That it is not as easy as a Meleer (unarmed rak, dwarf axeperson, stonie bammer, etc), is no great crime. Much of the problem with Archer is knowing where and how to kill things, which is not really something that can be "fixed" by wizards. Also knowing what equipment you need and when to use it is another hurdle. As Beckhan points out, Archer is all about info. Perhaps having a page better describing what are easier combinations of races/guilds would help. I know when I started, I choose High Elf because the picture looked the best to me (and I always liked elves). That I was given a bow and arrows to start made me think this is what I should use. It might have been better if I was given an elven broadsword instead.
As to not being able to RD...how do you think I am leveling now? With the advent of platinum bolts and armor, I can and do RD quite easily. If I compare the XP gained per hour to other characters (I've had 5 others), archer is definately the slowest (50-100k per hour solo, 200-400k grouped). Compare this to a resist mage halfling that can do 500k per hour solo or a unarmed rak doing 250k solo (not up to the same level yet either), and you see that archer is much slower than two other "hard to play" combinations. Compare this to the 1M+ per hour of a stonie bammer or dwarf axer and things get way out of whack. Bare in mind that Teshuvah has more on-line time than a lot of players (even if you combine their alts), so she has a distinct advantage of information: Knowing where monsters are, how difficult they are, what to wear to combat XYZ situation. That she found it easy is no great surprise. I have yet to find a combination that was difficult once I had the knowledge of where and what to kill. Yes, archers are rich. As an archer, I would gladly trade gold for XP (1 for 1 even)...but unfortunately putting gold stacked items at 1 gp per in arkwor or does not give you xp. Balance? Archer is slower, requires you to think,and requires you to have information about the game (my autobags and aliases are the most complex on my archer). It should also be mentioned that halfling or human anything is easy (hidding and 4th skill point give you lots of choices). IMHO, Archers are the most difficult difficult to play. Of course, once you mastered Archer, the others pose no problems. |
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