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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 01-17-2008, 10:45 AM
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Is it just me or do you also think its very easy to lv after lv 25 by rding, it just takes time. my suggestion is making monsters in the rd that can shoot spells like fireball and blizzard that actually hurt. of having monsters that can dispel resists, or even monsters that only spells, or meele hurt. there could also be monsters guarding the stairs (hard ones that take awile to kill and actuly give high lv. meeler's a challenge. its all to easy to lv theese day's, after lv. 25 its basicly if you have the patience to lv up.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyrabitz View Post
Is it just me or do you also think its very easy to lv after lv 25 by rding, it just takes time. my suggestion is making monsters in the rd that can shoot spells like fireball and blizzard that actually hurt. of having monsters that can dispel resists, or even monsters that only spells, or meele hurt. there could also be monsters guarding the stairs (hard ones that take awile to kill and actuly give high lv. meeler's a challenge. its all to easy to lv theese day's, after lv. 25 its basicly if you have the patience to lv up.
Ya good idea, im sick of seeing those reapers,Xipe totecs and armorted titans every time i go deeper.
  #3  
Old 01-17-2008, 12:50 PM
Shuya Shuya is offline
 

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this would completely destroy a mage's rding capability
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2008, 04:34 PM
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Which is already less then that of a meleer. One, RDs don't need to be made stronger. In order to balance RDs out, max resist need to be lowered. 75% should be the max resist you can get. Also, dragons (bla bla bla) Ok, so I am not going to get into why dragons should be more powerful, but believe me. I have gone over it all before.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2008, 09:19 PM
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But people under level 25 like to RD to level also, and these new things would completely shatter that in every way.
  #6  
Old 01-17-2008, 09:23 PM
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I think more acid recoil monster could be added to RD, like monos... and if what you want is a "melee challeng monster type" then add some mosnter inmune to melee
  #7  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:06 PM
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RD's definitely needs to be fixed, personally, I don't really care how, as long as it puts the random back in to random dungeon.

I always liked the idea of (mini)boss themed levels or maybe puzzle levels that you must solve before you can go any deeper.

another thing is, blade traps, spiked pit traps, spike traps etc. at level 200 down a RD does 250+ damage, which is ridiculous for light meleers such as human paladins or rak monks. ...needs fixin' !
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2008, 03:29 AM
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Isn't there (wasn't there?) some skill that makes you able to see traps around you, sometimes? I could be thinking of Crossfire, here, but I don't see why that couldn't be a skill in here, as well...

I think that just adding more variety to an RD would make it better, overall. One reason for this would be that you would no longer know quite what to expect. For example, right now you only really have to worry about a certain few types of monsters, but if you added, say, a an acid shoggoth or two here, some diamond golems here, a few black dragons there... You would at least need to start paying more attention and perhaps avoiding certain things.



Just A Thought...
  #9  
Old 01-18-2008, 03:53 AM
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There is the spell "Find Traps" and a ring "of searching," but... The ring has a ridiculous low success rate (basically making it totally useless), and a wizard stated that they were quite certain that the spell was only usefull for wizards themselves. There have not been any skills that I know of which allowed you to do such.
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2008, 10:46 AM
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i know its hard for mages to rd, buy come on, if you lazy enough you could make a stone giant caveman and get to lv 25, and you could go down an rd and never die (unless your stupid), and thats the same way with other classes too. i have a mage too the hardest part of an rd for an mage is the stairs going down and that can be easy if you have the alias (apply; shoot fireball; apply) then you don't have to worry about that. wyvern challenging for low lv.s but i personally think that it should be harder for higher l.s too

maybe there should be even a ability to pay alot of money (in the mill range) and do a quest and have like a rebirth, like you keep all your hp, and mana but start all over with no equip, money or skills, and cut down exp you get. then with that make epic monsters for the rd's, make it hard so its just not a time factor for some classes for lv.ing. i think rd's should be some thing thats ment to be hard, not plan out making a pally or meller and go rding at lv 22 with bracers, d-pro, and 2 greater pro rings.
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Rabitz - human pally lv. 21 BANNED
golgren - fire giant cavie lv. 18 BANNED
erebus - lion axeman lv. 25 BANNED
subere - dwarf axeman lv. 18
tyranos - fire giant pally lv. 27
happyrabitz - halfling ranger lv 28 RETIRED
Ulin - human mage lv 25
habrab - human rogue lv 23
  #11  
Old 01-18-2008, 10:52 AM
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RDing on an elf is tough enuogh as it is.
  #12  
Old 01-18-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyrabitz View Post
i have a mage too the hardest part of an rd for an mage is the stairs going down and that can be easy if you have the alias (apply; shoot fireball; apply) then you don't have to worry about that.
I wouldn't do that if I were you.

When you're going down in a map damage happens in that map. if you go up before the attack is finished (multi hit monsters mono/ghast/beholder) the attacks will keep coming, but because mana shield is a hook set on the map. (The damage event is a map event. What you can see if you have a look at the API) the mana shield switches back to the map while still recieving hits. => mana shield failure, it's saver just to teleport and run around monsters, you're faster then most monsters, except beholder and Xipe, for mages Xipe shouldn't be a problem and you can teleport away from a beholder. Which are quite easy to kill for a mage from a distance.
  #13  
Old 01-19-2008, 01:56 PM
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Add more monopods and beholders. Need more high damage monsters to wake up my mage when he's rding.

Add monsters that have lvl 20 thunderstorm. There's no need for shock resists in rds, so a high damage air spell needs to be introduced.

Add monsters with skill 30 icestorm. Lack of powerful water spells in rd, this would force people to use cold resists.

Add monsters with stronger petrification. My giant has never been petrified in an rd and never uses any petrification resists.

This sounds challenging enough for everybody?
  #14  
Old 01-19-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post
Add more monopods and beholders. Need more high damage monsters to wake up my mage when he's rding.

Add monsters that have lvl 20 thunderstorm. There's no need for shock resists in rds, so a high damage air spell needs to be introduced.

Add monsters with skill 30 icestorm. Lack of powerful water spells in rd, this would force people to use cold resists.

Add monsters with stronger petrification. My giant has never been petrified in an rd and never uses any petrification resists.

This sounds challenging enough for everybody?
Sounds delightful.
Monopods and Beholder?
I BURY those cockroaches!!

question about petrification.. did you have an enhanced protection ring on? and was it tested against DL/AD's stonewind?
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  #15  
Old 01-19-2008, 03:31 PM
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It seems at lvl 25+ petrification in RDs becomes a non factor. I don't use enhanced prot ring. I tested on DLs/ADs and never have been petrified, ever. So its pretty safe to RD without petrification resists, because my luck is pretty bad, if it was not safe i would have been petrified many times.

Don't try no petrify resists on certain wizard made areas tho because some of those monsters have beefed up stonewind.
  #16  
Old 01-19-2008, 03:52 PM
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I think that before making a broad change to just random dungeons the wizards should take a look at the type of character that is able to go 100+ levels deep into a random dungeon without a problem. In my experience these characters usually fall into 1 of 4 categories: 1) They are a giant. 2) They are a naga hydra. 3) They are a mage. 4) They are grouped with one of the previous 3.

You might notice Blackbeard posted earlier about trying to train in a random dungeon with a dark elf meleer. Even with mana shield, this isn't easy. I know this because I have a dark elf meleer myself. Running into a shoggoth takes at least half of your hp and sp, even with a black dsm. With a high hp, high ac character like a giant or a hydra, this obviously isn't a problem. So I think the wizards should look closely at this, and devise monsters that are particularly nasty for certain races (like the anti-hydra reapers), and not just make a general increase in difficulty for random dungeons, as this would make it extremely harder for people who don't fall into the 4 categories.
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2008, 06:35 PM
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Just because RD's aren't hard for certain player types does not mean they need to be "fixed".

If going by your logic, it can be said that Archers cannot do anything close to a significant RD run, so clearly, RD's need to be made easier.

As Ra said, the problem lies within the race/guild combinations themselves.
  #18  
Old 01-19-2008, 10:41 PM
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Agreed, the problem lies in race/guild combinations.
and thanks Godhand for the info

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyvernRa View Post
In my experience these characters usually fall into 1 of 4 categories: 1) They are a giant. 2) They are a naga hydra. 3) They are a mage. 4) They are grouped with one of the previous 3.
Forgive me for going even more off topic, but I owe it to nagas to say that it's not easy at all for hydras to RD. Here's a couple of reasons

Recoil - we hit fast and we hit light, it takes a lot more strikes to kill a monster than say, a stone giant. what's worse, we hit so fast, we get a lot more than just 1 recoil per strike. couple this with elemental recoil and the naga's natural lack of resists, demon lords, riagors, and the ever so common fire shoggoth, and even greater fire elementals are a total pain, if not fatal.

Lack of resists - there is still no item in existence that can give the hydra any elemental resistance. hence, the only protection we have is resistance scrolls, giving a meager 60% and lasting merely 5 minutes, not to mention costs quite a bit.

Reapers - the bane of all hydras. Completely immune to stab damage, having very high HP, and armed with the deadly green lightning drain spell, capable of diminishing a hydras full supply of mana in seconds, this, coupled with the hydra's large size and low mobility, has often proved to be deadly. We all know what happens when the hydra runs out of mana and gets down-shifted. While even a Frost Wyvern will give the naga a run for his money, the average random dungeon is inhabited with ghasts, monopods, and medusas. If that isn't enough, confusion, fear, dragon breath, and the infamous death ray is sure to claim the down-shifted naga.

Traps - we all know, the deeper we go down a random dungeon, the more the trap hurts. Though a nuisance, they are never fatal. Not true for hydras. Mana traps, capable of draining 180 ~ 300+ mana once stepped on, all but instantly down-shifts the naga; rock/rock piercer could do up to 200 + damage, most other races wouldn't know this because they are not monks and they can wear hats that actually protects your head; barrier/spike/pit does the same damage, but we can see them coming... but guess what? because we're 2x2, we have to step on them to get to where we need to go.

Large size - the naga's large size not only make them step on a lot more traps, it sometimes make us step on them twice, which can be instantly fatal, (for example, getting hit in the head by 2 rocks is the rough equivalent of 400 dmg). Also, it make us a lot more prone to spells, a human meleer can merrily dance around a skull and never get hit by its spells, while we nagas have to just sit there and take it. One of the most deadly spell to get hit by is the green lightning while stuck in a narrow tunnel.

Slow speed -
our slow movement speed, make us take that much longer to get to stairs, and take that much more out of us to chase those monsters down. Slow speed, coupled with all of the aforementioned handicaps, make us hydras one of the worst races RD with on a laggy day - if we ever get into a confuse lock while surrounded by reapers or fire shoggoths, we're all but done.

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Last edited by Warcow : 01-19-2008 at 10:46 PM.
  #19  
Old 01-19-2008, 11:22 PM
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i agree in this:
1. RD dont need to be harder, just diferent.
2. at lvl 200+ traps are way to powerfull (if you are a pixie or a halfling with 0 in strn you get dc before you can scape of a spiderweb)
3. RD are far from be easy for a naga.
4. puzzle lvls could be fun in a rd.
5. The game i think it suposed to be max dificulty lvl 20. then at lvl 25 you are a HOF! you are over the rest of the wyveners, so i dont think you can expect to have a real challeng at lvl 28,29,30... (unless its an lq). Maybe do some special extra hard RD insted making harder the ones that are already (i have 5 years palying and its easy for me the game, but for new players im sure its hard, and rd are not easy the way they are right now, i have seen ghast in lvls 2 of rd, or tons of firedrakes at lvl 1)
  #20  
Old 01-20-2008, 12:19 AM
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Most importantly, what's with the ridiculous spiderwebs? You can unwear amulet; wear amulet of the eagle to get out of the other ones, but for a spiderweb, you're basically reduced to mashing direction buttons, taking about 5 minutes just to get out.

What's the point?
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