Wyvern Forums

Review Wyvern Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Arcade
Go Back   Wyvern Forums > Archive > Wyvern Forums Archive > Suggestions
Home Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chatbox Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:05 AM
Robbeh's Avatar
Robbeh Robbeh is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Robbeh has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default Group attack leading to natural penalties

Introduction
I don't care who you are, whether you be the Governator or Chuck Norris - no matter how many people you're fighting in a dark alleyway, if 10,000 bodies wielding bottles and spears descend upon thee (sparing the use of Spartan shields) you are not going to be fighting each one of them at full capacity.
The idea behind this is to encourage greater teamwork through grouping.

Getting to the point
When being attacked by a singular opponent, you will have no penalties. But when being attacked by two or more opponents, you will incur penalties. These penalties will be best made by defense modifiers or attack enhancers for your opponent. That is, you become weaker.

For each attacker, the percentage of damage dealt to the recipient of the attack would increased by 0/10/14/18/22/26% (i.e., Chuck Norris is weaker and suffers more for every point of damage).

Why?
  • This is in part, to combat those opponents with ridiculously large character sizes.
  • Also, encourages teamwork.
  • So finally, Frog Form can become useful to a Naga.
  • Gives them leopards something to do!

Last edited by Robbeh : 07-21-2007 at 01:02 AM. Reason: clarification
  #2  
Old 07-20-2007, 10:05 AM
Hamel's Avatar
Hamel Hamel is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Hamel has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Post

Yeah, I think this is a very good idea. But I'm also thinking that it would be better as a increase of chance to hit when facing the back or side of the opponent, yes yes I know that this would be almost imposable to code but I think it would be perfect for not only making grouping more helpful but it would make rogues more interesting and give them great skills to go with this new update.

Such as "BackStab" a skill that would perhaps increase the chance of critical hits by say 50% when facing the back of the opponent, of course this means the other fellow would have to be looking away, so maybe a skill like "Distract" would be necessary, so you can make those pesky little bugbears look away, it would have to take very high levels of distract to distract a shoggoth, and very good distracting items, like steak.

Rogues would naturally have a bonus to all this sneaky stuff.

And maybe rogues would have other bonuses for this sort of thing like sneaking and stealing, note I think that if stealing was ever put in this game it would only work on monsters and shopkeepers, maybe theft would be a crime and if you got found stealing bananas from the general store in NV you would go right to jail if the guards got you not a very long sentence for lesser crimes like bananas and not plate mail. And you shouldn't be allowed back into that shop untell after reboot. And I think sneaking as we have it is kind of useless, i think the monster should hear or see you unless you get pretty close to it, sneaking would lower the chance that the monster would wake up and so you could use sneaking and BackStabing in perfect harmony.

I figure that trapping would be pretty cool also, you'd buy traps from less then completely legal stores like the black market. *wink* Or you could pick them up on dungeons floors. I think how traps would work would be like the firewall spell you cast its with some reagents and then theres a flamy wall on the ground. So I suppose that if say, Lemah gets a big ol' spike trap from the black market, so he goes to the elf houses in BR and he lays that big ol' spike trap right in the entrance of the place and then waits and watches as those dumb old elves fall right into his trap.
I think that some cheaper but stronger traps would need to be reloaded or cleaned, like rock fall traps or say a pit trap. Trapping in towns and such would of course be, "Public Endangerment".

Lemah: But hey, this is what we rogues are really all about! Oops, I mean expert treasure hunters..
__________________
"You shouldn't go wandering around without your head if you don't want people to start suspecting something." - A sad, strange little man.
  #3  
Old 07-20-2007, 05:15 PM
themadhobo's Avatar
themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
themadhobo has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

I think if your damage is decreased based on the number of enemies in combat, it should be based on your weapon and strength. If youre a stone giant with a massive diamond club and youre incredibly strong, you should have no problem smashing your club across the skulls of everything within your arms reach. Given, if youre a pixie with a club you should be too weak to even hurt an opponent, but wheres the fun in that?

Maybe with this idea have something like weapon based bonuses or penalties. A spear should be able to stab through enemies, a sword can slash whats in front of you, just as a club can bash the same way. With a staff you can hit something in front of you and behind you with a quick flick of the wrists. Anyways, I like that idea but I think it should be based on what weapon you have.
  #4  
Old 07-20-2007, 05:39 PM
Hamel's Avatar
Hamel Hamel is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Hamel has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

I think what he meant was that you would take more damage when there are more enemys attacking you.
__________________
"You shouldn't go wandering around without your head if you don't want people to start suspecting something." - A sad, strange little man.
  #5  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:06 PM
themadhobo's Avatar
themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
themadhobo has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

Oh, that doesnt make much sense though. If youre fighting three people, they dont deal out more pain individually. Its the matter of three people doing what each individual can do adding up to be the real damage increase in fighting multiple enemies. It would make sense that your own damage changed if you had multiple attackers, but logically their damage wouldnt go up just because they had help.
  #6  
Old 07-20-2007, 11:43 PM
Hamel's Avatar
Hamel Hamel is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Hamel has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

Which is of course why I said that I think it should be increased chance to hit not plus to damage, because when you are fighting three people in real life your going to be detracted with trying to parry all the blows of say person number one and person number two, so then person three would be more capable of hitting you when you were not looking. And really though it makes no sense for someone to get a bonus for attacking more then one enemy, I mean by game play standards.
__________________
"You shouldn't go wandering around without your head if you don't want people to start suspecting something." - A sad, strange little man.
  #7  
Old 07-21-2007, 12:54 AM
Robbeh's Avatar
Robbeh Robbeh is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Robbeh has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

Quote:
Oh, that doesnt make much sense though. If youre fighting three people, they dont deal out more pain individually. Its the matter of three people doing what each individual can do adding up to be the real damage increase in fighting multiple enemies. It would make sense that your own damage changed if you had multiple attackers, but logically their damage wouldnt go up just because they had help.
Lets say that you are a giant wielding superb smashing abilities. No matter how big that club is, you're still going have to aim a swing. And I would guess that a swing against one opponent would be much more potent than trying to swipe out a line of three.

In addition, just because all three aren't attacking you doesn't mean that they aren't in the back of your head, when you have to think about their movements and when they might launch an attack? So when one engages you, you might have 80% of your awareness devoted to one opponent and the other 20% trying to protect yourself from the other enemies.

Unless you have The Force, then it'll tell you when you shove your lightsabre into a droid!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Maybe with this idea have something like weapon based bonuses or penalties. A spear should be able to stab through enemies, a sword can slash whats in front of you, just as a club can bash the same way. With a staff you can hit something in front of you and behind you with a quick flick of the wrists. Anyways, I like that idea but I think it should be based on what weapon you have.
I like it! Weapons have the abilities to enable parries as a defense motion. But how large/clumsy the weapon is should effect how much evasion the weapon should hinder the wielder.

Amendment to idea!
The Point
The weapon chosen by the wielder should reflect its ability to hinder the wielder (thus affecting dodge/evasion bonuses) and the weapon should also reflect the weapon's defense ratings (thus affecting damage intake). In addition, the type of attacks made by the weapon should effect defense ratings.

1 hand Swords: relatively light, strong parry, can slash and stab = moderate weapon
2 handed Swords: heavy, good parry, can slash = aggressive weapon
1 hand Clubs: heavy, weak parry, strong club = attacking weapon
2 hand Clubs: very heavy, weak parry, very strong club = aggressive weapon
Unarmed: none, weak parry, extremely dexterous = moderate weapon
Daggers: very light, weak parry, powerful stab = attacking weapon
Axe: moderate weight, weak parry, strong slash = attacking weapon
Staff: moderate weight, strong parry, can club = defensive weapon
Whip: light, weak parry = attacking weapon
Spears: moderate weight, average parry, powerful stab = defensive weapon




I'm not exactly sure on the details of how Wyvern's weapon system operates. This is what I'm guessing it is: that it's just a weapon system based on one archetype of the melee weapon. The different weapon classes operate as just different classes, so those who train in weapon skills get better with the class. However, the class is just a class - there are no modifiers to make weapons stronger/weaker in terms of battle abilities.

Weapon potency based on dodge hindering:
  1. Unarmed
  2. Dagger
  3. Whip
  4. 1Sword
  5. Staff
  6. Spear
  7. Axe
  8. 1Club
  9. 2Sword
  10. 2Club
Weapon potency based on defense rank:
  1. 1Sword
  2. Staff
  3. 2Sword
  4. Dagger
  5. Spear
  6. Axe
  7. 1Club
  8. Whip
  9. 2Club
  10. Unarmed
Weapon potency based on attack type:
  1. 2Sword
  2. 2Club
  3. Axe
  4. 1Club
  5. 1Sword
  6. Spear
  7. Staff
  8. Whip
  9. Dagger
  10. Unarmed


But keep in mind while realism is a goal, there is a limit to how much the Wyvern engine can be modified. I don't think elaborate codes on such subtleties will make wizards happy.
Discuss.

Follow up.
Assuming all weapons has everything at default 0; (this really extends past the suggestion of this thread)
Dodge - basically how clumsy it would be in the hands of the wielder (humanoid)
Unarmed: +4/0/-4%
Dagger: 0/-4/-8%
Whip: -6/-10/-14%
1Sword: -6/-10/-14%
Staff: -8/-12/-16%
Spear: -14/-18/-22%
Axe: -14/-18/-22%
1Club: -16/-20/-24%
2Sword: -20/-24/-28%
2Club: -24/-28/-32%

Rak natural ability with Unarmed: +8/+4/0%
Giant (in giant form) natural ability with 1Club: -12/-16/-20%
Giant (in giant form) natural ability with 2Club: -18/-22/-26%
Elvish natural ability with Long-blade/1Sword: -4/-8/-12%
Halfling natural ability with Dagger: +4/0/-4%


Defense rating based more on parry rather than attacking motions (i.e., defence not attack type)
1Sword: +8/4/0%
Staff: +8/4/0%
Spear: -4/-8/-12%
2Sword: -6/-10/-14%
Axe: -10/-14/-18%
Dagger: -10/-14/-18%
1Club: -10/-14/-18%
Unarmed-claws: -10/-14/-18%
Whip: -10/-14/-18%
2Club: -16/-20/-24%
Unarmed-nothing: -18/-22/-26%

Rak natural ability with Unarmed-claws: -6/-10/-14%
Giant (in giant form) natural ability with 1Club: -8/-12/-16%
Giant (in giant form) natural ability with 2Club: -14/-18/-22%
Elvish natural ability with Long-blade/1Sword: +10/6/2%
Halfling natural ability with Dagger: -8/-12/-16%
  #8  
Old 07-21-2007, 11:32 PM
Logwad's Avatar
Logwad Logwad is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Logwad has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Send a message via AIM to Logwad Send a message via MSN to Logwad
Default

Hooray, I can die even faster than before, now!
  #9  
Old 07-22-2007, 12:06 AM
Moraath Moraath is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Moraath has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

Robbeh, I think that that would be insanely hard to implement. Plus, why in the world would a dagger have worse parry than a two-handed sword? Two handed swords are heavy, long, and hard to maneuver, whereas daggers are light, short (not necessarily good, need a balance), and easily maneuvered. Silly.

But I think the main thing is that you can't effectively block/dodge/parry/whatever as many of your opponent hits if there are three of them, leaving your opponents with better opportunities to strike hard. Sounds a little though, though. Is there anything in Wyvern that marks what creatures are being engaged by whom and vis versa?

If so, it might be better to incur a dodge penalty instead or alongside. This seems to make a little more sense. Of course, with parrying, the faster someone is, the better the could block/dodge more opponents... But I sense that would be even harder.




Just A Thought...
  #10  
Old 07-22-2007, 12:15 AM
themadhobo's Avatar
themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
themadhobo has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

Well, we also seem to have forgotten that in Wyvern we are some kind of heroes. At least thats how I would feel about being totally awesome at destroying monsters. I think someone with heroic qualities could handle fending off numerous enemies. C'mon, Jackie Chan can do it, why couldnt a dwarf of a giant?
  #11  
Old 07-22-2007, 02:27 AM
Robbeh's Avatar
Robbeh Robbeh is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Robbeh has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

Quote:
"Hooray, I can die even faster than before, now!"
Actually the idea to take down big giants faster.


Quote:
"why in the world would a dagger have worse parry than a two-handed sword?"
Hence, italics: Discuss.


I don't know how difficult it would be to implement. Upon each new attack from each new source, it leaves an "impression" that will decrease the attacked's dodge/defence that lasts for maybe 3 seconds. Once duration is over, all negative influences on attacked is gone. That way, even ranged units can have fun from a distant.

Admittedly, upon expanding the idea I went beyond what I had initially suggested (darn contributors with new ideas!). Need to discuss with a coding wizard how Wyvern's damage/battle system is made.


EDIT:
Quote:
"This seems to make a little more sense. Of course, with parrying, the faster someone is, the better the could block/dodge more opponents... But I sense that would be even harder."
Sorry, didn't clarify my ideas. I just coined Defense Rating to name how much additional damage the Attacked would take. I wouldn't even bother suggesting implementing a Parry system into Wyvern - never liked the idea of someone hiding behind shields.

Last edited by Robbeh : 07-22-2007 at 02:31 AM.
  #12  
Old 07-22-2007, 04:31 AM
Salkand's Avatar
Salkand Salkand is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The dark marshes of the southern swamps
Salkand has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Send a message via AIM to Salkand
Default

bla bla bla bla...what about mages who can easily cast spells to deal with hundreds of opponents at a single time?

a hundred evil bunnies coming at me? O no, oh well fireball!!!!
__________________
“You put the Devil on the other side, and I will come to fight.” - Royce Gracie
  #13  
Old 07-22-2007, 01:02 PM
themadhobo's Avatar
themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
themadhobo has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

hehe mages dont need to think about defending ourselves. Our cloth armor is awesome enough to handle any number of enemies, assuming we have the entire battlefield engulfed in flames...
  #14  
Old 07-23-2007, 03:56 AM
Robbeh's Avatar
Robbeh Robbeh is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Robbeh has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

Well for any AoE spells, I suppose even if you're the leader of a gang of swashbuckling dwarves, you got to keep in mind thems nasty spellcasters. And if your gang of dwarves aren't somewhat impeded by nasty cones of spell, then they be from the Fire Dwarf kin!

Speaking of keeping Mages safe, I have a two ArchMagis, so I know my way around (i.e., Hydras running at you, cast teleport/blink and hope it goes more than 4 tiles!) and to wield big spells creating impenetrable walls (i.e., hogging the Fountain at the Dueling... Killing Arena).

In the main, I was thinking more about reducing the XP-loss count in LQs when everyone flooded the Main Map looking for them nasties and in deep RDs. I guess the way to make Mages tougher against said bunnies would be to introduce a potent little staff basically focused on defensive protection with little-to-no attack value.
  #15  
Old 07-23-2007, 07:38 AM
themadhobo's Avatar
themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
themadhobo has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

No way man! I dont want defense! I want more powerful offence, just the way a mage is meant to be! In any case a ****ed off magic wielding hobbit should wreak more havoc than a dwarf with a measly axe or a giant with a tree stump. We need a staff that adds more damage so we can do what mages are meant to do, and focus on pure damage while simply assuming that the spells we cast will kill our foes before they reach us.
  #16  
Old 07-23-2007, 01:49 PM
Salkand's Avatar
Salkand Salkand is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The dark marshes of the southern swamps
Salkand has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Send a message via AIM to Salkand
Default

The reason mages are so weak is not because we don't have a good offense. It's because someone said 90% resist was fair...I mean at 40% resist I can stand up to any monster and have even survived some player spells...so I fail to see how having 60% resist max would be unfair to anyone... Plus it would make mages better in MK and PK.
__________________
“You put the Devil on the other side, and I will come to fight.” - Royce Gracie
  #17  
Old 07-23-2007, 02:16 PM
themadhobo's Avatar
themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
themadhobo has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

60% resist would kinda suck vs. instant kill style monster spells, like death ray and dragon breath (yeah I know we can get them too) because if you have low hp and low resists you stand no chance, particularly if you step down the stairs of an RD and just get blasted. Oh well, I guess thats what stone giants are for right?
  #18  
Old 07-23-2007, 06:38 PM
Salkand's Avatar
Salkand Salkand is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The dark marshes of the southern swamps
Salkand has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Send a message via AIM to Salkand
Default

considering the highest death resist you can get is around 68% I would say that it makes no real difference. 60% resist would be enough to survive attacks easy.
__________________
“You put the Devil on the other side, and I will come to fight.” - Royce Gracie
  #19  
Old 07-24-2007, 12:30 AM
Clubbz's Avatar
Clubbz Clubbz is offline
Player Mod
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The hood
Clubbz has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

60% resist against Death Ray is very, very helpful.....ever since I've gotten my amulet I've died once to it.......and I'm not one to kill reapers in seconds.....well a few seconds anyways......

I usually use no resists except the 15 percent resist to fire from my wyvern skin robe and I have little to no problems killing most things......I don't even heal that often because I have a high healing skill(I scrapped merchant for healing).......I only really have a little problem with recoil monsters, and only the high level ones at that........but then again I'm a Cavey stone giant, so my massive hp covers all the damage........

Also even though I'm too high a level to find many people to group with, I still try, because I'd rather rd in a group than by myself....its more fun.....One time I believe I went rding with A HoF cavey who was exactly 5 levels ahead of me(I think thats the limit)......I was pretty useless compared to him but I still enjoyed it much more, not because of the xp(we weren't making all to much xp), but because I just like grouping.....which is one of the reasons all my other character are still levels 8-15.....because I still want to be able to group and adventure from time to time......and most grouping happens at lower levels.......Now I had a point to this which I don't exactly remember, but it looks like it was something about some people like to group just for the fun of it....but most people need some kind of perks....well I say just cut player power to make grouping almost neccesary......
__________________
There's no harm in you being wrong, but when I'm wrong hundreds of people may end up in trouble......

Last edited by Clubbz : 07-24-2007 at 12:40 AM.
  #20  
Old 07-24-2007, 07:17 AM
themadhobo's Avatar
themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
themadhobo has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default

If you cut player power then how would we ever play by ourselves? There arent enough people in the game to be able to always find a group. What about high level RDs where you need a group to survive? That could be more interesting, and then you have the choice: Do I group and do the wicked hard RD? Or do I go solo an easy one?

BTW what level are you clubbz? Cause if youre 21-31 Ill group with you when the game comes back up.
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First attack system malyce Suggestions 8 03-20-2011 11:39 PM
low level pk group Jacksparow Miscellaneous 0 01-10-2010 08:05 PM
Group Healing Narhalles Suggestions 28 07-18-2007 03:39 PM
New group Narhalles General 19 12-10-2006 01:59 AM
Specific dodge/attack speed CAPs for each race Zeofar Features and Ideas 3 06-08-2006 05:05 AM

Wyvern Forums
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:57 AM.

Forum: Contact Us - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.