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General For serious discussions about general Wyvern topics. |
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#41
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^
I noticed :P, I work for that website. edit: I do miss the old days too, though. Almost nobody remembers me, but I made some lifelong friends on Wyvern. I started playing when I was 10, until 13 or so, as a mage named Merik, and I had a pixie who's name I cannot recall. It's too bad that I have completely lost touch with Arisu though, because we were both friends together, and she had to have been my first online friend c: . p.s. Arisu, if you're still around and read this hehe, I'm the one you were going to plan the Wizards awards ceremony thing with that Zifa was going to make a special map for. Last edited by Jammart : 10-03-2008 at 02:58 PM. |
#42
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Arisu is indeed still around. You can try in-game mailing her or leaving her a private message on the forum. You'll have a much better chance of getting a response that way.
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#43
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Thank you Arilou, I appreciate it a lot! Glad to see you're still here, putting everyone in their place hehe!
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#44
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can you post a link to the thread? i'm curious to see people's responses to wyvern
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#45
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If you google search the game, you can find a bunch of such threads on various forums. People usually always complain about the simplistic nature of the game and there are often disgruntled players in them who were banished. |
#46
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Salkand, you are truly a martyr for the cause.
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#47
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0_0 I am surprised Arilou had that. I don't know why, I just am.
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“You put the Devil on the other side, and I will come to fight.” - Royce Gracie |
#48
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I asked many peoples opinion.... They say they didn't want to play this game because of its graphics.... And they even say its lame.
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#49
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A promotional video I did really fast for wyvern.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDsJz2ED-yA Feel free to take it to other forums, etc.
__________________
“You put the Devil on the other side, and I will come to fight.” - Royce Gracie |
#50
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Wyvern dev reminds me of a young child writing. If you ask him to handwrite properly, use correct grammar, spell right, and compose sentences, all at the same time, he'll do a poor job in all categories. Just focus on composing sentences, or just focus on spelling, or make it only a handwriting exercise, or give him a grammar lesson. He doesn't have enough brainpower to handle all of that at once.
Similarly, if you ask a few people to make a balanced game, make it interesting, not tolerate "undesirable" players and "objectionable" material, have a very selective process for getting new devs, and make the game brilliantly put together, they'll fail. The game won't be balanced, it will be boring, wanted players will leave with the undesirables, a G rated MMO is doomed to failure when it is designed to be played by intelligent people, you will get very few although "superior" devs and therefore slow progress, and the game won't be any fun. Stop striving so greatly for balance, let all but the worst undesirables live, don't make it so hard for players to develop, and, in general, stop trying so hard. You simply don't have enough devpower at the point to do what you're trying to do. I used to be exceedingly, jumping-up-and-down-with-glee excited about Wyvern, and I'm one of the least excitable people I know. You've got to have something pretty incredible to get that. But you. are. doing. it. WRONG. I know. If you listen to me at all, you're going to come back with a bunch of reasons why I'm stupid and you're all so smart. Here's some responses, to save us both time: Wiz: We've got to do this! Rhialto has strict guidelines on what we have to do! Me: Then why don't you tell him what I've told you? Wiz: He'll never listen. We've already done it. Me: I have difficulty believing that. Oh, of course, you HAVE already talked to him, but not what I'm talking about. Wiz: We're doing this for free, you ingrate. Me: If you notice, I have pretty much left Wyvern. Right now, I was just checking the forums out of a misplaced sense of duty. I thought of a way to sum up the problems with Wyvern and how to fix those in a post, and decided to write it. I being a perfectionist, it went from a short paragraph to this. Wiz: Ha! We shouldn't be expected to notice! Me: I suppose you're right. Nevertheless, I have pretty much left Wyvern, so the rest of the statement still follows. Wiz: We've added a whole bunch of content in the last few years! Despite all appearances, dev is actually speeding up. Me: You've got a problem there. If it appears to the players that dev is stagnating, the dev you make that is usable by them IS stagnating. Wiz: But we did that and thet and this and thot and thut and sometimes thyt! Me: Silliness aside, that isn't very much, or at least, it doesn't affect the players very positively. Wiz: We don't care about our players, even though all our dev comes from players. We just want to create the game. Me: I don't think I should need to respond to that. But I will anyway, since you don't seem willing to make the leap of logic necessary to understand the fail of that statement. If you get all your dev from players and all you want is dev, then you need to care about your players. Wiz: Well, you may be right, but R's word is law. Me: Yes, sort of. R's word shouldn't be unalterable, and it is possible to game the system without actually appearing to game the system. I'll get to that point after this Q&A section. Wiz: You've said something we don't like. I'm suggesting that you stop. Me: Alright, I'm a smart person. If I want to play this game, I need to cheat without being detected. And I need to come to that conclusion without being told, and if I ever let out that fact, I'm banned. Huh. Sounds kinda 1984y. Wiz: Cheater! You've given quest info out and obtained it! You're banned right now and permanently. We don't want your kind here. Me: Oh well. It isn't like I'm actually risking anything - if you're going to be like that, then my whole post has gone to waste and I don't care. I really do hope, for the sake of something once held holy to me, that that isn't the case, though. Oh, and I'm not actually banned right now. I can finish making this post before you ban me. Wiz: I think you're stupid and not worth listening to since you're making us out to be stupid here. Me: If you aren't stupid, you can easily read around that. I'm not doing it THAT much. Wiz: Back to a point I made above, R says the game's gotta be G rated. Me: Then, if R is really so unchangeable, you are doomed. I hope that this isn't the case. Wiz: The healing nerf WAS a positive thing! Me: Really? All I find it doing is requiring us to have faster connection speeds and reflexes AND ruining the game for many of us. Wiz: But there were invincible players before the heal nerf! We HAD to remove them! Also, the players for whom it ruined the game weren't worth having. Me: You're right. You just did it wrong. Also, those players tend to attract better players. Wiz: Hey, give us a break. R doesn't do much dev any more. Me: Sounds like abandonware to me. If you're still trying to hold onto it much longer, I think we've got a genuine case of zombieware. Wiz: R doesn't even read these forums. Your posts will have no effect, no matter how intelligent they are. Me: I suppose he also ignores the wizards? If not, then you don't consider my posts intelligent enough to relay to him. Or you're too busy with Wyvern to care about reviving Wyvern. Waitaminute... there's a disconnect there, I know it. Wiz: At any rate, R's law is unchangeable. Period. Loser. Me: Then Wyvern is truly doomed. I'm honestly sorry to hear it. I hope you're wrong. If you remember, I said something about pseudo-Western-zen gaming the system, or gaming the system without gaming the system. I'll elaborate with a gripe about quests: Sure, there are dozens of long quests. But I can't solve a single frikkin' one that's worth solving without being a truly hardcore gamer. Srsly? I don't think very many of us has the lack of life for that. The problem lies in the fact that, to solve a quest, (even with the quest randomization) I have to do a specific list of steps in a specific order, often involving searching giant areas for something that doesn't appear to be what I'm looking for until well after I've found it. And, worse, I receive ABSOLUTELY NO HINTS (BREAKING THIS IS PUNISHABLE BY PERMANENT BAN, if you get caught). Since most of the good parts of the game involves a quest, I AM NOT PERMITTED (PUNISHMENT: PERMANENT BAN) to talk about most of the good parts of the game. This - the fact that most anything worth talking other than game mechanics could be QI or MQI - makes it rather... single-player. Kinda odd for an MMO, if you think about it. My solution is one that I was planning on trying to implement when I turned 16 (I devised it when 15) and finished the large area (not a city or other generic, by the way) I used to be designing. It would have quest-like elements if it could have any without being considered QI or MQI. My goal was to have the good parts of quests that I could get out without that horrible speech ban. I finally got sick of having such limited functionality. Heck, if merely I was allowed to use any image I found in the game, I probably would've gotten a lot closer to finish if not finish (of course, those images that it turned out I wasn't supposed to use could later be replaced, under my idea). As it was, I had to spend a very long time to do really simple stuff, so I gave up. That was years ago. If you've read through this whole post, that's more than I can do. Wait. No, that's not true. When I see an intelligent post like this, I do read through it all. Still, thanks for reading. I know I haven't addressed everything. I've been writing for about an hour now, and I'm ready to quit. Wizards, if you read my post, please treat me like an intelligent person, not the idiot user you normally treat people as when they have errors in their expression of a perfectly sound idea. I'll be checking back in a while, since I still hope for a good response. Disappointed but hopeful, Vuntic Savokis |
#51
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Well said Overlndsea
Couldn't have put it better myself. I always think to myself that the wizards nerf a lot because they don't truly understand. Spam healing for example, doesn't make you invincible, and yet the wizards (mainly Arilou) speak of it to be some god skill. Sure it makes things easier, but that's usually what emergent game play does (look it up). Let the players be creative with the unique skill system Wyvern has. Don't label it as a "bug" and get rid of it. But that's just one part of it. I might be wrong, and maybe many of the wizards have characters at atleast Lv25. But from where us players are standing (minus me of course) it just looks like a large case of being -Out of touch-. With all due respect to Rhialto, knowing that he has such a busy schedule, it's very unlikely that he himself PLAYS his own game, so a lot of these calls the wizards make about over balanced aspects of the game really ruins it more than anything. And therein lies the problem Take a hint guys...You think you're making the game better, but think about it. All you guys do..it's really for us. You don't create maps and monsters for your own enjoyment (if you do then hey, can't knock ya for your interests). You most likely make and do what you do for US PLAYERS. So if US players are whining and complaining about something, and the player base is suffering, what does that tell you? It's a game..and as a game it should be a fun get away from real life, whether or not it's "unbalanced". It just seems that the more "balanced" you make things, the more annoying it gets to play. Somethings are better left off not dealt with. You guys are never gonna make the game truly balanced. Even if you do, by then the player base will be 4. Arilou, Teshuvah, Binyamin, and Salkand.
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Achiever 86.67%, Explorer 60.00%, Killer 33.33%, Socializer 20.00% |
#52
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I've said this before and I'll say this again, Xae. Correcting spam healing is a process. The idea was not to just nerf the snot out of you, but to take and add little bits until you were capable of playing the game as intended (which we were kind of at before and during that time we had a healthy number of players having fun). We wanted this all to be done in a short amount of time and we discussed all of this with Rhialto. The same thing happened with the enchant bug being fixed - A major unbalance was fixed, players complained, and we began tweaking the game in order to make their lives easier. People came back, more came in, everything was fine. The difference here is that, only one of the things we discussed ended up being changed and then Rhialto...let's say, got busy with other things. We realize this is not ideal and we want this to be fixed, perhaps not as much as you do, but it is indeed important to us. I'm very limited by what I can say, so at the moment the best I can offer you is that after a brief exchange with Rhialto, we're hopeful that a little bit of progress will be made in the near future and that much more can be done down the road.
As for who we make things for, I don't know any current wizard who does not do it for themselves. None of us receive monetary compensation for this. Our payment is the joy of seeing our ideas come to life. This is a hobby, pure and simple and while players are of course on our mind as we do this, don't kid yourself into thinking that you are our main motivation. I very much create monsters and areas for my own enjoyment and then I simply share it with anyone who might be interested. If you're not interested, other wizards have things that might be more up your alley...That's part of what makes Wyvern interesting in my mind. Each wizard can create their own little game world based on what they like and it offers a variety of choices for a variety of gamers. Players only become more of an issue on the game design level. Where as, the example you gave was a level design one. However, even there we have a vision of the type of playerbase we're shooting for and you may not want to hear this, but we're using you to test things so we can get to that point. It won't be all doom and gloom as we by no means want to just keep taking things away from you. In fact, we have lots of fun ideas that we want to get implemented. It may not always seem like that because we've been in a bit of a dry patch due to the availability of our arch wizards and as a result we're limited by the type of changes that can be made. So, we've been using this time to fix as many problems as we can so there's less to deal with when we have a greater freedom to move forward. So to sum up, the only problem Wyvern has right now is a lack of Rhialto. When that changes everything will fall into place and I can tell you that Rhialto has made it clear that he's not keeping the game up just for the sake of keeping the game up. He wants to get to a point where he can devote real time to the game again and has ideas on how to make that possible, but again I can't go into details. I don't want to string anyone along though, so if you can't keep hanging around waiting for a revival then you should move on. If it's not fun for you, then you should go something that is and maybe check in from time to time to see where Wyvern's at. |
#53
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OK it all makes sense now. =P You're just using us for your sick and twisted plans.
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Achiever 86.67%, Explorer 60.00%, Killer 33.33%, Socializer 20.00% |
#54
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I realize this may be a little garbled but it's late and I don't want to put too much thought into this Quote:
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#55
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#56
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Warning: a long post here. Not meant to be flame but a highlight of some problems I see with the game now as it is.
A lot has been said already. I would just like to add that wine (http://winehq.org) had come a long way since I started playing. When I was starting out there just were not many MMOs that would run on linux. However witht he improvement of wine, this situation changes. Many games can now be run through wine. Many people said that wyvern got harder. Many areas that had inbalanced (imbalanced?) loot and xp have been tweaked down a little. As a result of this, there is more players in a certain area and the highly sought after areas are always taken. (I honestly don't remember when any of my alts got samhoc loot for themselves). And I am sorry but I honestly do not remember what the last training area that was added is. (this is not meant as a flame, there probably are new training areas but I just can't remember what they are) The absence of pvp in the game. I am sure that many people enjoy the pvp factor in games. The pvp now - in my opinion looks somewhat like this: mages cannot kill melee because of heal, melee cannot kill mages because mages can take 1 hit and then they teleport. Archers is a chapter on its own. I hope that your balancing plans do consider the pvp aspect even though you repeatedly said that pvp is not your concern. Relatively small game content that is being used. There is no high lvl content and probably never will be as you say. People create new characters and keep playing over and over at the same spots as before. I often hear go explore being said in the shouts but there is a reason why people stay where they are. Other areas are not as good perhaps or they do not have as many monsters to kill? The other problem I see is RD's: they are the only way of making high lvl xp. We all agree on that. But the problem with them is that they are not really accessible to players that are not high level because they get killed by reapers. Many players 20-25 have problems survivng the monsters there, which is perfectly fine. But when you add reapers, players get killed even with the protection that is supposed to save them from it because they are not high lvl. But once they are the right lvl to survive the death ray, they already have beaten the game. This returns players to training in areas where some have trained since lvl 15. Repetetive. Hardly any new features. This is a big one. People like to be able to do new stuff and learn new things. In wyvern you basically have fighting, smithing, and armor making. The first thing you do is some fighting. Average player probably won't try the other two because there is just not the demand for those goods and it is not easy to get started with those. That means you are back to fighting. Honestly I love crafting/enchanting and whatnot in games. I also do realize that active wizards can't really do anything about this since coding is required and as far as I know there are no coders active now? Or is Contrare one? Not sure, anyway it does require something that is not possible right now. Perhaps in the future. LQs is a chapter on its own. I remember the first time I went to an LQ – Raze and it was fun. I was a low level back then and mostly just watched and got killed. I have enjoyed LQs ever since and found them enjoyable and competetive. The fact that LQ could go off at any time was also a nice factor. Of course there were problems with them that always same people would win if they were on but a level limit could have been added to them so that only a specific group of people could have attacked them, thus giving everyone a chance of winning their shiny item. (sorry for giving ideas in this post, but the topics are a bit related). Now random LQs are gone and I have only seen the new gauntlet once and when I tried it, it went on for just way too long and I couldn't sit through the whole of it. So this is just a few points I wanted to say. I am pretty sure there is more things if I thought about it some more but that would probably be a way too long post then. I just want to say that even though I think I have some answers, I have no clue what is going on in the background. I do not want to just criticize wizards for all the above. They still do a good job running wyvern considering there is so little of them and they have their lives too. Just a little off topic: gah Xae you were not meant to be banned no one to hit 31 with me now :/ (no idea what you got the ban for)
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War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength! |
#57
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Arilou, you seem to read this thread - are you ignoring me?
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Oh, wait. You were talking about the dialogue (based on what wizzes have actually said in the past, and how I would respond). Sorry. *starts proof-reading* I've found one obscure error and some intentional stuff, like thyt. Sorry, but I'm not quite as grammatically inept as you think. |
#58
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In light of the issues accumulated in the past several posts, I think another significant problem is with exploring. Content does, in fact, not get explored very well because all too frequently it ends in a players untimely death.
I hate exploring when Im also working on gaining a level, because so frequently an overpowered monster surprises you and kills you in one hit. If I plan to explore, I dont want to risk 10% of my experience to some surprise attack. Therefore I stick to RDing, because I expect the unexpected. I think a little bit of verbose would help that problem. What kind of hero wouldnt notice the presence of a demon lord as they enter an area? Some kind of "The hair on your arms stands up." or "The scent of death hangs in the air." to give warning that something really bad is lurking nearby would be really nice. |
#59
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In the line of themadhobo's post, I think it would be nice if more monsters spoke. If a Demon Lord spewed nonsense like the Xipe Totec does, a player could hear him and escape before confronting him. Is this something feasible, or are the wizards against this?
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#60
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Also, if you're so worried about turning a corner and running into a monster, might I suggest a helm of x-ray vision or other scouting spells like wizard eye or glimpse? You can also avoid the 10% experience loss by investing in spirit travel, if it worries you so much, or actually come prepared to combat monsters more powerful than what you're used to. Quote:
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