So are the Wizards gonna admit it?

[Shootout]

If you would've put some more effort into having a conversation than attacking me, you would have realized that I did not quit because of my inability to adapt, I quit because of my choice not to. I play games that I enjoy. Due to gameplay changes, I would never have been able to be as strong as I was during the age of full healing. So I stopped playing.

[Zurgez]

The way I see it is that with the change to spam healing, they should have changed other things too to compensate.

Now there is just too many restrictions to be even able to do half the stuff you could before the healing changes.

The Wizards seriously need to review survivability in Wyvern right now.

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Shootout

If you would've put some more effort into having a conversation than attacking me, you would have realized that I did not quit because of my inability to adapt, I quit because of my choice not to. I play games that I enjoy. Due to gameplay changes, I would never have been able to be as strong as I was during the age of full healing. So I stopped playing.

Yeah this is a big problem. You were never supposed to be this strong, but due to bugs and imbalances that were left for years you were.
Now players think they have to be able to kill everything easily to play or be the best.(see post after yours ).
Always keep in mind Rhialto wants you to always have to worry about a goblin suddenly ripping off your face if you arent watching carefully. lol
While there are many things we are still definitely working on that just aren't working at the moment (food and some other issues ) , some things were never meant to be that easy and aren't going to be put back that easy.
So we understand that it was a jolt, (especially to spam healing giants that never should have existed) but it was necessary.

[Arilou]

Originally Posted by Zurgez

The way I see it is that with the change to spam healing, they should have changed other things too to compensate.

Now there is just too many restrictions to be even able to do half the stuff you could before the healing changes.

You mean like fixing ac, increasing the benefits for paladins/monks, improving summon monster/making it so monsters no longer ignore them and go straight for you, fixing hurled, and adding better armor/making efforts to give you better access to existing armor/weapons?

The Wizards seriously need to review survivability in Wyvern right now.

It's actually not that difficult for those who made the proper adjustments. But, there are still some things to be done. As mentioned when healing was fixed, if there are specific challenges that you find to be too difficult, let us know. We're not opposed to tweaking monster stats and such if they are overbalanced as a result of trying to make challenges when spam healing went unchecked. Meanwhile, there are various improvements on our list that we haven't got around to. One thing we want to do is make things easier for players by getting them to group and we've put in a lot of changes toward that end without yet getting around to many of the benefits which will encourage players to do this. So stay tuned - If our updates seem one sided at times, don't worry. As we keep saying, this is a process and it's about ultimate balance/playability, not constant nerfs.

[Salkand]

Wyvern only needs 1 thing. Better mages! (This message has been brought to you by the overpowered mages association).

[themadhobo]

Bugs are just unintended features

[Halloween]

The changes seem fine to me.

Although I've yet to try a giant with the new changes. Maybe I'll try that.

[Shootout]

Originally Posted by Teshuvah

...some things were never meant to be that easy and aren't going to be put back that easy.
So we understand that it was a jolt, (especially to spam healing giants that never should have existed) but it was necessary.

The fixes, from a gameplay/balance point of view, were completely necessary and I realize that. Its just from a players point of view they, well, stunk lol.

Originally Posted by Zergez

The Wizards seriously need to review survivability in Wyvern right now.

For me the problem isn't survivability in and of itself, its survivability relative to the way things used to be. I'd like to see additional action to implement/change/restore some gameplay features to help players (not trying to belittle AC and the other things though. )

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Shootout

For me the problem isn't survivability in and of itself, its survivability relative to the way things used to be. I'd like to see additional action to implement/change/restore some gameplay features to help players (not trying to belittle AC and the other things though. )

Yeah if you compare it to the way it used to be, unbelievably broken and unbalanced (spam healing giants), it's never going to compare.

What game play features would you like to see restored/added/changed and why?

[themadhobo]

A feature I would love to see would be +/- strength based on what guild you join. I think if races from pixies to giants gained a little strength in a warrior-style guild and lost some strength in a ranged style guild it would bring back some versatility to the weaker classes. Even something as small as a +1 strength bonus for joining a guild can be significant for a halfling paladin, or a -1 for a giant mage. It would also be a little rp since you expect warriors to be mighty and mages to be frail.

[Salkand]

Personally, I would like to see magic become stronger when in the guild and stronger for those of higher rank in the guild.

That way a lv 25 fireball from someone in the mages guild would be stronger than a lv 25 fireball from someone outside of the guild.

But. . . what do I know, I'm just a poor defenseless players.

[Zurgez]

I think first you need to look at the races and guilds and define how they SHOULD work then.

Need to get balanced it out so that all guilds are competitive and have a good method to stay alive and have that method outlined and enhanced through bonuses.

For instances, Monks. Most players go down the Mana Shield route which goes well with the guild's innate Healing bonus.

So give the Monks guild bonuses to Spirit, Meditation, Healing, Unarmed, and whatever school Mana Shield is under etc.

[Fergy]

I would rather see the guilds modify the base stat than give +/- skills.

What game play features would you like to see restored/added/changed and why?

During the PK lq with Zevran vs Raey it became apparent that a mage has almost no chance vs someone with 90% resist unless they train FW. The problem with FW and mages is it makes ball spells absolutely deadly if it hits you by mistake. (25 fire + 5 fw can 3 hit ko proteus (400+hp 90% resist, 5 g-pro amulets)) For this reason, training fw is extremely risky.


I would also love the ability to cast spells BELOW my skill lv by adding a suffix. This would apply to all spells (even non-evocation spells).
EX:
cast fireball (casts full power spell)
cast fireball -5 fire (casts spell with 5 less fire than player has)
cast fireball -10 fire -5 find weakness (cast fireball spell with 10 less fire than player has and 5 less fw))
Note: The main purpose of this ability is to allow the player to cast less mana heavy spells vs lower lv monsters. And cast ball spells that do not kill the player as quickly.

Make spay spells more powerful. A lore 6 spray spell (that uses a reagent) is less powerful than a lore 4 ball spell. (it also seems like dragon breath from monsters is weaker than ball spells. . .) Granted, the spray spell doesn't hurt the caster, and it costs less mana. I would like to see spay spells scale with power and mana use like ball spells do. Since spay spells have the advantage of not hurting the caster, this should be at a lower rate than ball spells.
(I don't think the spells should hurt the caster since the spray spell in my mind is moving fast from the caster, and the caster wouldn't be able to move into the spell unless they were extremely fast. But due to server limitations, the speed of spray spells can't be increased enough. If some day a fix is found, and spray spells made faster, they should damage the caster again)

Fix frost wave. I like how the spell stops casting as soon as another spell is cast. I do not like how it damages the player if he doesn't move. I would like to see frost wave changed from a ball spell into a wave spell. The wave should start on the 8 squares around the player (not the one under) and move outward in all directions. Outer rings should be weaker than inner rings. It should never grow smaller. In my mind It should look like this:

..44444..
.4333334.
433222334
432111234
4321P1234
432111234
433222334
.4333334.
..44444..

Add a fire/life version of frost wave (maybe holy light). The spell should be much weaker than frost wave (1/4 damage). Fire would determine size/damage. Life would determine damage bonus vs undead (100% + 10% per life (at 20 life, damage vs undead would be equal to frost wave)). This spell should be an incantation.
Note: This is to allow players that are in a support type role to have some offensive ability (although extremely limited). . . Like a cleric paladin...

Also consider making frost wave like holy light, (1/4 damage, incantation) except damage bonus vs demons.

Add bungling ability to weapons. Not all types of weapons, just most. Common exceptions: Wood, leather, bone, Silver(including mithril), Gold, Platnium (most staves & claws)

Add anti-bungling skill (maybe called Wisdom). Reduces effect of bungling by 1 per 5 skill points. Slightly increases exp gain. (0.4% per wisdom)
Note: I like the idea of adding a way to reduce bungling (especially from spells), but 1 skill per bungling item is too quick, and 5 skill per item is slow. I think having toward the high side with a negligible bonus would be fine. This would mostly be a skill that is added to some guilds, but rarely trained. (conjurers +5 starting, Paladins +5-10, Mages 0)

Do not allow players to wear two shields. (slaps forehead. . I know I will regret saying this)

[Crier]

One major thing that I would like to see happen, but probably won't, is that when a creature dies you stop receiving damage form their spells, like when a person dies in pk.

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Crier

One major thing that I would like to see happen, but probably won't, is that when a creature dies you stop receiving damage form their spells, like when a person dies in pk.

Yeah we actually had this one at the top of the list (Things stopping when a player dies), this isnt possible in the current damage system.

Originally Posted by Zurgez

I think first you need to look at the races and guilds and define how they SHOULD work then.

Need to get balanced it out so that all guilds are competitive and have a good method to stay alive and have that method outlined and enhanced through bonuses.

For instances, Monks. Most players go down the Mana Shield route which goes well with the guild's innate Healing bonus.

So give the Monks guild bonuses to Spirit, Meditation, Healing, Unarmed, and whatever school Mana Shield is under etc.

Meleers should not use spells as a main function of their build.
If you remember that first, the rest starts to fall into place.
If we wanted you to have more HP we'd give more HP, not let you get them from mana shield.
The choice is use a pot, or give up skill points for the spell. That is called balance.
Guilds are defined the way they should work.
Players are living/surviving just fine actually, especially if you never used spam healing.
You are never going to be able to "always survive" , that isnt a goal.

[Salkand]

The thing I would like to see the most in wyvern is diversity among mages.

I wouldn't mind it each made had to chose 1 element to focus in. This would make it so that there are a lot more fire mages, then water mages, then air mages, and. . . well. Unfortunately we aren't going to see a lot of death mages.

But I almost dislike hybrid mages. I am in the processes (Long process) of obtaining 25 in fire, water, and air. . . Yeah I sacrifice some things for that but still. No diversity.

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Fergy

I would rather see the guilds modify the base stat than give +/- skills.

During the PK lq with Zevran vs Raey it became apparent that a mage has almost no chance vs someone with 90% resist unless they train FW. The problem with FW and mages is it makes ball spells absolutely deadly if it hits you by mistake. (25 fire + 5 fw can 3 hit ko proteus (400+hp 90% resist, 5 g-pro amulets)) For this reason, training fw is extremely risky.

More stuff....

Yeah this is called Balance.
You have to choose which you want. If you want to be good in PK a mage is going to use FW, which has the added risk of not using your ball spells so haphazardly.
That is the best example of balance Ive seen in a long time, thanks
We accomplished it in this area at least.
Mages prior to these changes had zero/none/zip chances of ever winning in PK against a meleer, now they have chances and do much, much better in PK than ever before. So I'd say we are moving in the correct direction in that area. As a rule we dont balance PK, we balance the game and PK balances itself, and that did happen with mages.

Casting a spell with negative magic is called suicide and not something that makes sense on any realm . If a mage attempted to cast with negative they should just blow up/die/disappear into a black hole.

Your idea of casting with less magic is done already multiple ways in the game, again depending on your choices.

When you recommend making a spell stronger, it isnt just for players. It will be what monsters cast as well. You saw what happened with frost wave being made stronger. That had to be lessened because players were being decimated. So making spells stronger at this point isnt something I want to do, since players are already dying to them.

Frost wave doesnt need fixed, that is the function of the spell to be a ball spell not a spray spell. This is on the list though to be somehow fixed for whirly axe use.

2 shields is already on the list in some capacity undecided yet.

The rest isnt well thought out, you are only thinking player/pk and not that these things will make monsters slaughter you. We already have monsters stronger in some cases then they should be and are reworking them as we go along.

Stopping spells from damaging players = not happening. If anything I am more for all spells damaging players (The way it originally was).

We are considering removing the 1 skill point requirement, since so many other things with spells were fixed, (cant cast with negs etc) this is probably not necessary in the big scheme of things.

So most of what you recommended would unbalance what we just balanced.

[Fergy]

I would imagine that a mage extremely talented in fire magic should be able to decide what lv of fireball to be cast. He shouldn't be forced to using all his power with each casting.

Say a mage with 25 fire, my idea is to allow him to cast a fireball at lv 15.
At first I thought It would work like:
'Cast fireball lv 15' (spell would be cast with 15 fire magic or max fire magic (which ever is lower)
but then I thought this would take too much server use with it flagging to see if the player had less than 15 fire. Then I thought 25-10 = 15. Why not just tell the server to cast with 10 less skill, it does the same thing, but It doesn't need to check to see if the player has 15 skills. So in essence, the player isn't casting with a negative skill, he is just casting a spell 10 lvls lower than his max. (if a player tried to cast spell with -26, it would simply say the player didn't have enough skill).


I would think that making the spray spells stronger would allow the wizards to better balance mage monsters, In that the wizards could actually weaken the spell power of creatures. So instead of having a weak firespray and very strong fireball, the creature would be medium in both. (I do not know at all how monsters spell power are assigned. But my best guess is the spell level is based off monster lv. For example: in stead of a lich being spell lv 15 under the current system, it could be a spell lv 13 under the this system and still do about the same damage. If this isn't how it works I apologize.)

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Fergy

I would imagine that a mage extremely talented in fire magic should be able to decide what lv of fireball to be cast. He shouldn't be forced to using all his power with each casting.

Say a mage with 25 fire, my idea is to allow him to cast a fireball at lv 15.
At first I thought It would work like:
'Cast fireball lv 15' (spell would be cast with 15 fire magic or max fire magic (which ever is lower)
but then I thought this would take too much server use with it flagging to see if the player had less than 15 fire. Then I thought 25-10 = 15. Why not just tell the server to cast with 10 less skill, it does the same thing, but It doesn't need to check to see if the player has 15 skills. So in essence, the player isn't casting with a negative skill, he is just casting a spell 10 lvls lower than his max. (if a player tried to cast spell with -26, it would simply say the player didn't have enough skill).


I would think that making the spray spells stronger would allow the wizards to better balance mage monsters, In that the wizards could actually weaken the spell power of creatures. So instead of having a weak firespray and very strong fireball, the creature would be medium in both. (I do not know at all how monsters spell power are assigned. But my best guess is the spell level is based off monster lv. For example: in stead of a lich being spell lv 15 under the current system, it could be a spell lv 13 under the this system and still do about the same damage. If this isn't how it works I apologize.)

Casting with neg skill isnt gonna happen so just scrap that. That doesnt make sense in any realm of fantasy you play in.
But here is the thing you have to keep in mind. (I realize you were not privy to the hours and hours and weeks of wizard discussion on this)
Spam.
What is being done is being done to stop spamming whenever possible (it isnt always possible for example archers firing arrows must spam), at all costs.
Your way would allow casting of multiple spells at once unless a timer was involved which we are avoiding at all costs as well.

Now do it again with no ability to spam and no timer. GO!

The best idea that you didn't mention is probably small fireball, fireball and large fireball spells that stop the casting of the other while it is active.
(adds that to the list)

[Trayr]

Originally Posted by Fergy

I would rather see the guilds modify the base stat than give +/- skills.

During the PK lq with Zevran vs Raey it became apparent that a mage has almost no chance vs someone with 90% resist unless they train FW. The problem with FW and mages is it makes ball spells absolutely deadly if it hits you by mistake. (25 fire + 5 fw can 3 hit ko proteus (400+hp 90% resist, 5 g-pro amulets)) For this reason, training fw is extremely risky.

)

I just want it to be known that I didn't have 90% resists during the pk LQ. When I squared off with Zevran I had 55% fire resistance, and 25% cold resistance.

I'm not trying to say that everything with Mages vs. Meleers in PK is perfect but I will say it is very hard to obtain 90% resists for a meleer.

Dragon Scale Mails give 30% resistance.
Mithril Rings of resistance give 25% each.
Scrolls give 25% each.

With that taken into account, plus the fact that I (and other meleers) usually have to worry about 2 different elements when fighting against meleers, we also have other factors to consider. If you have fought Zevran recently you know that free action is completely necessary. I know in your heads you are probably thinking free action potions, but that doesn't provide good enough resists to deal with it.

My point is that I don't think mages need strength boosts because they are underpowered compared to meleers with resists.