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  #121  
Old 05-23-2009, 07:45 PM
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it's saturday night, and there are only 17 players online...

so wizards, you still think that all those nerfs that drove people away are a good idea?

wyvern is nothing now. there used to be 17 people online, at 5 AM, on weekdays....
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  #122  
Old 05-23-2009, 07:49 PM
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xae, i agree with u but every1 already knows tesh messed up and killed de game
  #123  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:01 PM
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Fixing unbalances is completely necessary and a "good idea". Balance is important for a game to be entertaining. When Wyvern is out of beta you might be able to complain about changes with actual credibility. :/

Change happens, that's life. Especially when it comes to beta games.
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  #124  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:07 PM
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Axorz, keep your negative comments to yourself.

Hamel, I totally agree with you, changes are needed for the balance in the game. Nothing can be over-powered, like stoney's with full heal. Or things under-balanced.

Xae, people aren't usually on nowdays is probably because they're busy in their real life. As am I. I haven't been on for at least a VERY long time.
  #125  
Old 05-23-2009, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xae View Post
it's saturday night, and there are only 17 players online...

so wizards, you still think that all those nerfs that drove people away are a good idea?

wyvern is nothing now. there used to be 17 people online, at 5 AM, on weekdays....
So far the nerfs have only been positive for players. training cap removed, AC fixed etc. So no, I dont think they have driven anyone away
We have had more people in the last month since things have been being updated again then we have had in a long time.
5am people are in bed they have school, work etc.
But it is only 9pm or so in the US so they are out on a saturday night, this is a holiday weekend in the US as well.
Last weekend we went over 40 from this time until well into 2-3am.
It was quite nice.
So to repeat, no, I think the nerfs have been good for the player number and not driven players away.
But some changes will cause a decrease soon probably, but they will readjust and come back, just like they always have. and honestly, it's about getting the things that have been broke for 5 years fixed and balanced. Not about how many players are on at what hour.
Btw there are 26 players on right now, not 17.

Gotta love when banished players log into the forum to troll and complain lol
  #126  
Old 05-23-2009, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Axorz View Post
xae, i agree with u but every1 already knows tesh messed up and killed de game
LOL this from a guy who is in private mail begging me to unbanish him. Guess thats the end of that
But of course it's my fault, Ive made all the decisions *Rolls eyes*
  #127  
Old 05-24-2009, 12:39 AM
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Teshuvah, you are the apocalypse.
  #128  
Old 05-24-2009, 01:59 AM
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I'm actually curious to know what these nerfs are, Xae. As Teshuvah said, most of what has been done between the time the game came back up and now has been positive. Rhialto nerfed spam healing and since then we've pretty much been giving you stuff that makes it better for you guys. Some maps got fixed, random dungeons are in a state of flux, but I don't really see anything that would warrant the phrase "all those nerfs." Balance is about give and take and I think players get that we're not going to leave them hanging anymore. Rather, we're going to keep at this until the game reaches a stage where it's both challenging and fun.

But anyway, we've been pretty much throwing things at you lately and in actuality, the playerbase has become more active, but still has problems growing beyond a certain amount. Why? Because of all these imagined nerfs of yours or because the server still has performance problems that won't allow it to support more than a certain number of players online without lag (as I have been saying for some time now)? We used to get this same argument when there were 60 players on at peek hour times - "Why only 60, we used to have 120, it's because of <insert change I do not like>!" - Meanwhile, the average high was always around 100 at the time (120 was something that happened a few times because of problems with people abusing guest accounts - if you've noticed, they've been disabled since) and it got to that level because Rhialto was actively working on the server to improve performance with the goal of supporting that many players at once. When he stopped, things begun to decline and if you read my previous posts I go into how that applies to the 2008-2009 playerbase situation. It's interesting how this argument just keeps being thrown around throughout the years, especially since, for the longest time there was little we could do to improve the game. However, now that things are on a bit of an uptick (the numbers we see online has actually increased a bit as previously mentioned) and players are getting changes they are happy with, you still come to try to sell that tired old rhetoric.

Btw, I've been on a lot at 5 AM over the years (I'm assuming you are talking about the same timezone you have your forum account set to) and that is always the time of the least player traffic. Before the game went down, 10 players was usually the average, while sometimes it went as high as 15ish and sometimes it would be a bit lower. The difference at that hour, now, isn't all that great. A couple times we had 30+ because of 4chan people joining the game at the same time, but normally 1-2 players is the low and the average is around 5-10 (usually falling closer to 5). It sticks out in my mind because when I used to play these types of games, that would be my favorite time of day to play. I'd always refer to it as the time when a good portion of night crowd (which includes people in different time zones) were going to bed and the day crowd (in the main timezones where the game's players were from) were still sleeping/getting ready for work/school.
  #129  
Old 05-24-2009, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logwad View Post
Teshuvah, you are the apocalypse.
Aww How nice of you Logwad *laugh*
  #130  
Old 05-24-2009, 12:28 PM
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Yeah changes need to happen, i get tired of logging on and seeing a new lv. 25-28 char made in a week, cause they can run through rd's with a unbreakable weapon or a overpowered skill set so nothing can touch them. If people get drove away, that's just because they don't want to work for anything and want to be good easily.
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  #131  
Old 05-24-2009, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Teshuvah View Post
LOL this from a guy who is in private mail begging me to unbanish him. Guess thats the end of that
But of course it's my fault, Ive made all the decisions *Rolls eyes*


proof or it didn't happen <.<


and FYI, i actually tried to get an IP ban...too bad you wizards fail and I can still log on ._.

and trolling is my job ;-)
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  #132  
Old 05-24-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xae View Post
proof or it didn't happen <.<


and FYI, i actually tried to get an IP ban...too bad you wizards fail and I can still log on ._.

and trolling is my job ;-)
Wasn't you I was talking about troll-boy
And stay on topic
  #133  
Old 07-28-2010, 12:14 PM
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I think the wizards have actually done a great job with the updates, even though I did whine to them at first, and even though I have not totally adapt to it, and everyone is saying that It was getting harder is right, but Im pretty sure if us players only played the "easy life" for a year instead starting from 2002, more people could have adapted easier+faster. If we didn't get so used to the easy wyvern, then we would probably still have had more players still playing
  #134  
Old 07-30-2010, 11:02 AM
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Well, I know the reasons I have quit ooh... 4 or 5 times, are that:

1) You can't share 'QI'. I understand the point of this but it makes the game immensely inaccessible and frustrating - my last quit was because I spent literaly around 8 hours trying to do Jewel of Besar and got NOWHERE. I'm not stupid, I have an IQ of 135, but some of the issue isn't just working things out, it's using the EXACT PHRASE which is required to continue the quest, and things like that.

2) Spots only reset every 30 minutes, and if someone enters them this timer is reset. This means that once you have killed everything in the areas you visit you have to wait a while. This is a lot different to WoW, WAR and pretty much every other MMO where monsters are continually resetting and there are instances (as a side note, I think instances would be a good feature for Wyvern).

3) No clear area progression. The areas which are good for people of specific levels are scattered about, unlabeled etc. In most MMOs, monsters have obvious levels, and usually so do zones themselves. In Wyvern, once you leave NV you pretty much have to stumble about until you find something you can manage.

Also, I miss jails...
  #135  
Old 07-30-2010, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggz View Post
Well, I know the reasons I have quit ooh... 4 or 5 times, are that:

1) You can't share 'QI'. I understand the point of this but it makes the game immensely inaccessible and frustrating - my last quit was because I spent literaly around 8 hours trying to do Jewel of Besar and got NOWHERE. I'm not stupid, I have an IQ of 135, but some of the issue isn't just working things out, it's using the EXACT PHRASE which is required to continue the quest, and things like that.
A whole 8 hours, that's nothing. It should take you at least 50 before you start complaining.
  #136  
Old 07-30-2010, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Valkon View Post
A whole 8 hours, that's nothing. It should take you at least 50 before you start complaining.
But I don't want to spend 50 hours wandering around a castle hoping to say the exact right words - I dont even want to spend 8! So I didn't. It's all very well saying that, but if it isn't fun people won't do it, because this is supposed to be a game.
  #137  
Old 07-30-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggz View Post
Well, I know the reasons I have quit ooh... 4 or 5 times, are that:

1) You can't share 'QI'. I understand the point of this but it makes the game immensely inaccessible and frustrating - my last quit was because I spent literaly around 8 hours trying to do Jewel of Besar and got NOWHERE. I'm not stupid, I have an IQ of 135, but some of the issue isn't just working things out, it's using the EXACT PHRASE which is required to continue the quest, and things like that.

2) Spots only reset every 30 minutes, and if someone enters them this timer is reset. This means that once you have killed everything in the areas you visit you have to wait a while. This is a lot different to WoW, WAR and pretty much every other MMO where monsters are continually resetting and there are instances (as a side note, I think instances would be a good feature for Wyvern).

3) No clear area progression. The areas which are good for people of specific levels are scattered about, unlabeled etc. In most MMOs, monsters have obvious levels, and usually so do zones themselves. In Wyvern, once you leave NV you pretty much have to stumble about until you find something you can manage.

Also, I miss jails...
Yeah then this just isn't the game for you honestly.
This isn't the type of game where you just level for the point of leveling too easily just to "say" your X level.
This game is about much more than that and it always will be.
This game meets the needs of many different types of players.. On purpose.
We don't want to dumb down the game like other games have in the past few years to such a degree that it becomes boring.
The game training areas are not linear , because this is an RPG and we promote and encourage players to play their characters the way they want, via exploration. Exploration is rewarded.
You want this game to be just like another game, and we just are not interested in doing that.
If you want to just tank through leveling, then definitely this is not the place for you. And we have no desire to make it such a place. Somewhere around here are Rhialto's laid out plans for the game. And none of them include making it easier, more linear or boring.
Quests are *quests* not a 10 minute walkthrough. You earn things and they actually mean something once again now that so many bugs and imbalances have been fixed.
Players are playing again, laughing again, grouping again, exploring again. It's a very good trend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggz View Post
But I don't want to spend 50 hours wandering around a castle hoping to say the exact right words - I dont even want to spend 8! So I didn't. It's all very well saying that, but if it isn't fun people won't do it, because this is supposed to be a game.
It's fun for the type of people that like questing, and the type of people this game is created for.

And You do not have to do quests, they are just 1 part of a very large, expansive selection of options.

Wyvern is very much about choices.

Quests should take you days, weeks and months to solve the first time. They are created that way.

It really sounds like what you want is a game that takes no effort what so ever and as I said, this is not the game for you. There are plenty out there to choose from.
  #138  
Old 07-30-2010, 11:57 AM
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Actually, I agree with Tesh on this. This game isn't for you Huggz. Quests are supposed to be like that, it took me a month to solve tornaum the first time, and thats one of the easier quests. Was it frusterating? Yes, but thats what wyvern is. It took me even longer to solve Sidewinders, but that's what it takes. These aren't child's quests, where all you do is go to point 'X' and kill monster 'A' and then report back. These quests require patience and problem solving.

As for the area respawing, the system in place is great. If you're 'waiting' for a spot to respawn, its you're own fault if you get frusterated if someone wanders in and it doesnt. There is a ton of maps to be explored, there really is no reason to wait for a specific map to respawn 20 times, go look for something else.

While it is true Wyvern is not perfect, I still find it much more enjoyable than other MMO's. Odd's are if you find problems like not being able to solve quests, or area's essentially being looted before you, it's not the game thats the problem. You just aren't the type of gamer for Wyvern.
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  #139  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teshuvah View Post
It's fun for the type of people that like questing, and the type of people this game is created for.

And You do not have to do quests, they are just 1 part of a very large, expansive selection of options.

Wyvern is very much about choices.

Quests should take you days, weeks and months to solve the first time. They are created that way.

It really sounds like what you want is a game that takes no effort what so ever and as I said, this is not the game for you. There are plenty out there to choose from.
I'm pretty sure if you asked everyone who has done Jewel of Besar, very few will say it was fun. I am all for challenging quests but there is a difference between genuinely challenging and spending 2 hours trying to work out the right phrase to say to someone to continue with the quest. It frustrates me because Wyvern could be great, and popular, but it seems like the Wizard's ridiculous policies preven it from being so, and whenever you complain they insinuate that you are some kind of dribbling retard who deep down wants to be playing Modern Warfare 2 with God mode and infinite ammo. If I didn't like the mechanics and style of Wyvern, I wouldn't keep coming back, but if it wasn't for all the pointless rules, I wouldn't keep leaving. And as for the rule about not swearing, it's funny that you are telling me that I am too retarded to play this game and yet you expect children to play it. If children could play this game, they would have to be a genuine genius.

It seems to me that the Wizards could benefit from reading some books on game design - this one is good, and actually listening to the players rather than pretending they know what they are doing and can never be wrong.
  #140  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggz View Post
1) You can't share 'QI'. I understand the point of this but it makes the game immensely inaccessible and frustrating - my last quit was because I spent literaly around 8 hours trying to do Jewel of Besar and got NOWHERE. I'm not stupid, I have an IQ of 135, but some of the issue isn't just working things out, it's using the EXACT PHRASE which is required to continue the quest, and things like that.
Quests are there for people who like quests. And quests vary in difficulty for different types of questers. If you don't like a quest, don't do it. Yes, we reward questers with bonuses on the highscore lists, with guild access, and with new items/areas. However, you don't need any of that to enjoy the game. If you want to join a guild, make sure you pick one that you are capable of meeting the requirements for. If a guild quest is too hard for you, there are other guild options available to you. You just have to plan ahead or retrain/remake a character if you run into problems. We don't require you to sit around torturing yourself trying to figure out something that is difficult and/or frustrating for you. That's something you did to yourself.

Quote:
2) Spots only reset every 30 minutes, and if someone enters them this timer is reset. This means that once you have killed everything in the areas you visit you have to wait a while. This is a lot different to WoW, WAR and pretty much every other MMO where monsters are continually resetting and there are instances (as a side note, I think instances would be a good feature for Wyvern).
This happens for a very important reason. We want you to explore, to use multiple areas, and to discover new things. Because of that, we made it so that a map takes a long period of time to reset as a way to get you to go train in other maps instead of hogging the same one all the time. We further make it so that a map stays loaded for a longer period of time, if people keep entering it, as a form of balance (poorly made/unbalanced maps are more likely to be popular and thus tend to not unload as much as well made maps). MMORPGs that use quick resetting dungeons and/or monsters have players sitting around, fighting the same thing over and over again without much diversity. This not only leads to boredom (for many) but leads to players having to adapt to this form of playing style to keep up and compete with others. Unfortunately, some people are so used to that style of play, that they feel the need to clean one or two dungeons and then sit outside of such a dungeon until it unloads. Leading to various complaints that they feel the game is boring. However, this is once again a form of self torture. Instead they should go find another place to train in while they wait. Even if they go to a place that doesn't offer as good experience, at least they will be getting experience (and hopefully having fun while they're at it).

As for Instance dungeons. The primary purpose for such a place is to reduce both the strain on the server (that comes with lots of players hanging out and actively fighting in a common area) and to reduce headaches over things like stealing kills. However, both of these issues are resolved by our claimable map system. Due to our open wizard system and ability to produce content without being bogged down so much by graphics, we have the potential to produce more content than many other games (10,000+ maps and counting). As a result we are able to offer our players their own dungeons, rather than having them crowd into the same handful of dungeons. Even so, we do have "instances" in the form per-player maps. We are just very selective about their usage and avoid using them in areas that are good to train in (primarily they're used for things like quests) for the above mentioned balanced concerns - Basically, you'd all be in the same handful of dungeons because you wouldn't have to compete with each other as much and thus leave most of the game untouched.

Quote:
3) No clear area progression. The areas which are good for people of specific levels are scattered about, unlabeled etc. In most MMOs, monsters have obvious levels, and usually so do zones themselves. In Wyvern, once you leave NV you pretty much have to stumble about until you find something you can manage.
As Teshuvah mentioned, the idea is for you to explore. Though you're being overly dramatic. Rather than making you have to explore the entire game we recommend you start by picking one of a few mid-level areas which consist of places like Alaria, Blackrose, Khatysi City, and Forgotten Oak (they're around New Verden for a reason). Our mid-level areas are largely underdeveloped though and admittedly need some work.

Quote:
And as for the rule about not swearing, it's funny that you are telling me that I am too retarded to play this game and yet you expect children to play it. If children could play this game, they would have to be a genuine genius.
What is this need to insist that our rules against swearing has everything to do with children? Yes, part of it is because children play the game (whether we like it or not or whether design the game for them a not, that is very much a fact of life) and their parents would not like them playing in a game where their kids were constantly being cursed at. However, that isn't the primary reason at all.

Wyvern had blocked that sort of language before Rhialto started seeing the types of players that were coming to his game and it's something a lot of online games do (though if it's really important to you, I'm sure you can find some out there that to do not block offensive language at all or are more relaxed about policing it). The reason they do this is simple - Without some sort of control, the environment can become unbearable when dealing with the types of things people will say online. In real life, people don't go nearly as far as they are willing to go online and that's because the control involves them being afraid of getting beaten and/or them not wanting to deal with the blacklash that they don't have to deal with when they get be anonymous online.

Maybe you haven't played a game where people could get away with anything they wanted to, but I have and it does not allow for a fun, relaxed, playing experience. Many people like to play a game after work/school (or whenever) as a form of relaxation. They want to unwind, they want to have fun, they want to enjoy themselves. They do not want to be cursed at, insulted, and generally harassed. We cater to those people first and foremost (again, if you're not such a person, there are other games for you). Of course, if this was my game, I would (personally) like it if we could deal with context. There's a difference between something said and something directed at someone else. However, that's a pipe dream. It would be near impossible to moderate for so many reasons that should be obvious and, at the end of the day, it's not my game. These are the rules, they've been well established, and frankly the people you are talking to now are often nicer about handling language offenses than the person who made them (them being these specific rules).

Quote:
It seems to me that the Wizards could benefit from reading some books on game design - this one is good, and actually listening to the players rather than pretending they know what they are doing and can never be wrong.
I suggest you not only play more text based games, but you play more RPGs. First of all, a lot of the things you are complaining about are common in MUDs. Many MMORPGs lost sight of these things in favor of shiny graphics and addictive gameplay that keeps the flow of dollars coming. However, Wyvern is very much a graphical version of a lot of those [MUD] games and because of this we are able to do things that a free MMORPG like us would never be able to achieve (open wizard system, large sprawling world, thousands upon thousands of maps...that's the power of a good MUD). Second of all, a lot of games claim to be RPGs, but they're really just fantasy based games and I have a feeling that they're the ones you have been playing.

Now, I don't know about you, but I've read many books on game design (the first of which was recommended by Rhialto whose ideas and vision we follow more than anything) and many articles as well. However, mine tend to be written by MUD developers because that's what Wyvern is and that's what Wyvern always will be. That may cause you to not like aspects of it, but that's your problem, not ours. By making it more like what you want it to be, we will be causing other people to like it less. There are different types of games for different types of people and I recommend to you that you find one that you can enjoy in all aspects as although you seem to like Wyvern enough to keep coming back, I suspect that you liked something that came about because of unbalances and in-experienced wizards (the people who are around after this much time have very much researched their craft, it's the "one areas" you'd need worry about). And even though those things are gone or on their way out, what you like now is the memory of those things. Games (like this) change, people change... but there's nothing like the memory of a new game that you connected with. I think you have to let it go, though. It sounds that by returning, like you do, you're really just punishing yourself.
 


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