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  #1  
Old 09-17-2013, 07:29 PM
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Default Old client download?

Does anyone have the old client and/or map editor?

I know the server is down, but I want to play with it again.
Nostalgia and such.
  #2  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by quanto View Post
Does anyone have the old client and/or map editor?

I know the server is down, but I want to play with it again.
Nostalgia and such.
Use archive.org. I know it works for the map editor at least.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Use archive.org. I know it works for the map editor at least.
archive.org no longer works for cabochon.com. I am assuming it is a part of the intellectual rights process to bring Wyvern back up.
  #4  
Old 09-18-2013, 02:17 PM
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archive.org no longer works for cabochon.com. I am assuming it is a part of the intellectual rights process to bring Wyvern back up.
Hmm, that's interesting.
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2013, 03:26 PM
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If you go to cabochon.com now, it also seems the domain has been sold.

This is also really upsetting because I have a Mac now and my installer probably won't suffice, even if I run Wineskin. I don't know if the EULA states that noncommercial redistribution is okay, so I can't honestly tell you that any of us can GIVE you a copy of it, I think it's pretty much now you have to have had a copy to use such things anymore. I'm sure the license agreement, considering the time period, was not a share-alike agreement.

EDIT: I installed it using a VM of Windows 7, and it's the first program I ever used in there that didn't make my want to gnash my teeth and throw my computer. It's fairly light-weight, and doesn't bog the VM down (I refuse to use bootcamp.) So anyway, I'll read the EULA and figure out whether it's legal to upload it somewhere for you! =]

EDIT 2: "3. Restrictions. Software is confidential and copyrighted. Title to Software and all associated intellectual property rights is retained by Cabochon and/or its licensors. Except as specifically authorized in any Supplemental License Terms, you may not make copies of Software, other than a single copy of Software for archival purposes."
TL;DR version: By having this software, I agree not to copy it for anyone else. I hope a copy turns up somewhere. =(
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2013, 06:50 PM
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That's really sad...
I really miss the old client.
I'll keep trying to scavenge the internet for it. It has to be somewhere.
  #7  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:06 AM
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If I didn't mention it before, I have the map editor, not the client itself. I can't find the client, though I'm pretty sure it's on my external HD. I hope you find it somewhere around the net!

Not that having the client will actually DO anything for you, anyway.
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Last edited by Nodlove : 09-20-2013 at 10:10 AM.
  #8  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:27 PM
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The map editor has its own client. It's not the same as the user client (it used some outdated art), but the map editor DOES have a client.
  #9  
Old 09-23-2013, 11:49 PM
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i have copies of both, a few different versions too. I'll have to dig through my archives and post what I have. i'll see what i have in the am and post up some urls.

is the game even still running or did it get shutdown permanent this time?
  #10  
Old 09-24-2013, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by onykage View Post
i have copies of both, a few different versions too. I'll have to dig through my archives and post what I have. i'll see what i have in the am and post up some urls.

is the game even still running or did it get shutdown permanent this time?
It's been down since April 2011. I think the general opinion is that the game isn't coming back. There's still some hope for it coming back, but I wouldn't count on it being any time soon.
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  #11  
Old 09-24-2013, 01:05 PM
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then why don't we just rebuild it ourselves? I'm sure there is enough talent in this community to make it all come together. i tried to buy the game back in 07 when it was shutdown the first time. I was told it wasn't for sale for any price. This thread started because someone wanted the nostalgia of area design. So there is a world map guy ready to go. Now we just need to pool our resources and find out what else we have to work with and make some magic happen. I'm down so you got a coder at your disposal. anyone else?
  #12  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by onykage View Post
then why don't we just rebuild it ourselves?
Besides the fact that there's something called copyright infringement or including that?

Quote:
I'm sure there is enough talent in this community to make it all come together.
Right and that's why we had so many applications from people wanting to be wizards toward the end.

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i tried to buy the game back in 07 when it was shutdown the first time. I was told it wasn't for sale for any price.
Please tell me you're not the person who offered Rhialto $500?

Quote:
This thread started because someone wanted the nostalgia of area design. So there is a world map guy ready to go.
There being someone who wants to look through the map editor because they are bored and miss the game doesn't equate to there being someone who wants to make maps. It also doesn't mean that person is any good at doing so.

Beyond that, I hope you're not suggesting people use Rhialto's software (the map editor) and arch/art files to accomplish this task because if so that's wonderful grounds for a lawsuit (in the event that you had the following in mind - not charging for the game doesn't make you exempt from lawsuits).

Quote:
Now we just need to pool our resources and find out what else we have to work with and make some magic happen. I'm down so you got a coder at your disposal. anyone else?
You do know that there are open source games similar to Wyvern like Crossfire and I think Daimonin, right? If you really want to create your own MMORPG why don't you instead take one of them and build it up into something new that draws ideas from Wyvern, (like Wyvern draws ideas from Muds, D&D, Gauntlet, Rogue, etc.) but is altogether its own game? Although Wyvern is coded from scratch, there are several games that used Crossfire's code as the base for their own projects and they were perfectly within their rights to do so.
  #13  
Old 09-28-2013, 01:54 AM
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Right and that's why we had so many applications from people wanting to be wizards toward the end.
I would have put in an application but with my terrible history I knew that it would never even be considered.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2013, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Besides the fact that there's something called copyright infringement or including that?
wow, see this is the kind of boxed in obtuse thinking that sandbags projects. You assume too much. Stop, it doesn't show anything but a massive inferiority complex.

I know a heck of alot about copyrights and trademarks. Your first incorrect assumption. You can not copyright or trademark an idea. And due to the fact that the name "Wyvern" was not officially registered, anyone could use the name in a game identical to it tomorrow and nothing can be done to stop it. To further expand on this, because the original artwork was such low quality you would only need to alter 2 dozen or so pixels in each tile and you have now created a new image which is closely similar to the original but not the same. Again you could bone up and take it to court and suffer horrible defeat due to the 30% ruling. The codex is what it is, not even going there for obvious reasons.


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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Please tell me you're not the person who offered Rhialto $500?
Not even going there.



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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
There being someone who wants to look through the map editor because they are bored and miss the game doesn't equate to there being someone who wants to make maps. It also doesn't mean that person is any good at doing so.
Another assumption, and one of really poor judgement too. You are not only talking for someone else, but you are also condescending that individual as if your a dictator. Have you seen the guys portfolio? I didn't see one posted anywhere. How would you know if he or anyone else would be both interested and good at something without both giving the chance to do it and educate the person on how to properly construct an area so that they become both knowledgeable and driven and possibly even talented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Beyond that, I hope you're not suggesting people use Rhialto's software (the map editor) and arch/art files to accomplish this task because if so that's wonderful grounds for a lawsuit (in the event that you had the following in mind - not charging for the game doesn't make you exempt from lawsuits).
More speculation, ...

the suggestion of 'creation' does not have to first start with, lets reverse engineer someone elses brainchild, spend months trying to figure out what he was thinking when he built it and then patch the **** out of it and then give it a release client version. Everything isn't built like Windows. And why does one have to use anything from the original game, it just takes some drive, a few people who are motivated, and things start to happen, its called a project.

And Civil lawsuits are stupid expensive, most lawyers require a retainer to even draw up the paperwork and if you do not stand to gain more then 10k profit (after) the fees, then your council is going to educate you on leaving it alone unless you just want to give him free money. Whats right or wrong doesn't even equate in the legal systems on this planet anymore. What equates is who has money and who doesn't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
You do know that there are open source games similar to Wyvern like Crossfire and I think Daimonin, right? If you really want to create your own MMORPG why don't you instead take one of them and build it up into something new that draws ideas from Wyvern, (like Wyvern draws ideas from Muds, D&D, Gauntlet, Rogue, etc.) but is altogether its own game? Although Wyvern is coded from scratch, there are several games that used Crossfire's code as the base for their own projects and they were perfectly within their rights to do so.
Cruise around in those OSS communities and you'll probably find me there staring back at you. I have forked dozens of projects, been party to countless others, and still am. None are close to what Wyvern was.

Somethings cant be rebuilt or replaced. They existed like a life and when it dies it hurts but has to be let go. Reliving the memory is the only way for one to ease the ache of the missing pieces.

Wyvern is one of those things. It was born, lived a long and happy life, and died like things must do. Its not coming back. But taking the memory of it and using that feeling to build something new, that's magic.

The term 'rebuild' doesn't mean reuse,recant,copy, disassemble,borrow or steal. It means to re-construct something. And I don't know where you came from or how you were raised, or how you were taught, but down here were I'm from, when you rebuild something; You start from the foundation after its been repaired and build everything anew. Nothing from the original is/was reused. It was modeled after, maybe even closely replicated to the finest details. But when its finished its a completely new object only closely resembling the original.

I made a suggestion and it got horribly dissected. And oddly enough, it was expected. My suggestion didn't say 'I' or 'Me' in it. (atleast let me check my 3d glasses...... nope no 'I' or 'Me"). It does how ever say 'We". Which implies on a group of individuals with a common interest or goal.

Next time, if you would assume something, assume that the person who wrote what your reading knows as much as you do and is just as capable as you are. Then realize that this is in-fact the world wide web, and there are people cruising around that didn't fall off facebook a few days ago. And then assume that there is a chance that the person whom you are reading not only knows what you know but may even know a little bit more. And then construct your opinions about whats said.

Now im going to drag you out of your little box and pee in your cheerios. "IF" i was going to rebuild Wyvern AND steal the show, going backwards for nostalgia would be a complete waste of time. I mean why use a completely outdated concept when you have ideas like ajax and opengl at your fingertips. Screw linking up some square tiles around on a 2d scroller, when you can low poly model everything down to the finest detail and it moves as smooth as silk on the screen in any direction. And lets not forget live action completely random animations on your screen, live and just for you. All while super closely resembling the original with 1k fold the potential with a py backend.

But it wasnt about me, it was about what could 'WE" accomplish.

cheers
  #15  
Old 09-28-2013, 04:45 AM
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see this is the kind of boxed in obtuse thinking that sandbags projects. You assume too much. Stop, it doesn't show anything but a massive inferiority complex.
First of all, how exactly does pointing out that the game is copyright protected relate to an inferiority complex? Second of all, I apologize if the kind of thinking that says you shouldn't steal someone's hard work sandbags projects that revolve around stealing people's hard work.

Quote:
You can not copyright or trademark an idea. And due to the fact that the name "Wyvern" was not officially registered, anyone could use the name in a game identical to it tomorrow and nothing can be done to stop it. because the original artwork was such low quality you would only need to alter 2 dozen or so pixels in each tile and you have now created a new image which is closely similar to the original but not the same.
There is no way under which you can get away with stealing someone's image, moving a couple of pixels around, and claiming it as your own. There's a reason why we told wizards that they were not allowed to use ANY piece of artwork made for another game and it wasn't because we were being unreasonably protective. Further, there's such a thing called "look and feel" in copyright law. While Wyvern didn't pioneer a new style of graphics, that doesn't give you the right to create a game called Wyvern (you can however create an unrelated game with that name) that copies its gameplay and graphical style.

Btw, who said anything about copyrighting ideas? No, you don't copyright ideas, you copyright the manner in which they are expressed. What about that makes you think you can rip off the game, I don't know. Anyway, I would relate this to something actual lawyers have said in regards to Wyvern, but I can't speak about it so you'll just have to take my word that expensive lawyers disagree with you.

Quote:
Not even going there
It is you, isn't it? You're the $500 guy who was willing to go as high as $1500 and wanted Wyvern added to your player world type community (aka those open source games that you talked about later in your post). Only this didn't happen in 2007, it happened in 2009 (or maybe it happened twice and I only know about the second time) and you were screaming about how the game was dying right after we started working on balancing the game. That was like the funniest thing ever.

Quote:
Another assumption, and one of really poor judgement too. You are not only talking for someone else, but you are also condescending that individual as if your a dictator. Have you seen the guys portfolio? I didn't see one posted anywhere. How would you know if he or anyone else would be both interested and good at something without both giving the chance to do it and educate the person on how to properly construct an area so that they become both knowledgeable and driven and possibly even talented.
Seriously? You made an assumption that you have a mapmaker all ready to go based on the original post and I simply posted alternative possibilities to that as a means of pointing out that you shouldn't make such an assumption. I at no point said that the original poster could not make maps, I said that you don't know that the original poster could. Although, no, I don't believe it likely that the original poster is proficient with the map editor for reasons I get into at the end.

Quote:
More speculation
If you're not planning to use things from the original game, fine. But, you were unclear and so if you notice I didn't flat out say that that was what you were planning, but rather I said that I hope that's not the case because if it is then X.

Quote:
And Civil lawsuits are stupid expensive, most lawyers require a retainer to even draw up the paperwork and if you do not stand to gain more then 10k profit (after) the fees, then your council is going to educate you on leaving it alone unless you just want to give him free money.
This is the conventional "wisdom" of the content thieves of the internet; "Hey, I'm not making any money off this and I don't have any money so it's a waste of time to take me to court. Therefore, let me just set up this private server containing a copy of someone else's game and all will be well." Well, unfortunately, there are two main problems with this...

1) There is a such thing where copyright holders have to show that they are protecting that copyright. While, true, this usually means sending out cease and desist letters without any backing to them, if you steal content from a for profit business you're stealing potential earnings from them. So suing you in court, shutting you down, and sending a message to others that you will defend your copyright can be beneficial to them regardless of whether they get money out of you or not. Oh, but Rhialto's game never generated any profit you might say... yeah, well, that doesn't mean he won't, for example, relaunch it as a game that does try to do that and if that happens you will a problem.

2) Regardless of whether or not you have the means to pay a judgment, it won't stop a monetary judgment being made against you and do you really want that hanging over your head for the rest of your life? The consequences are such that it's fairly stupid to gamble that someone won't go after you on principle or because you're hurting potential business earnings. I get it, you have this false sense of security built up because other people have gotten away with that and much worse. But, if we're talking a legitimate attempt to copy Wyvern (and not just draw influences from or pay homage to) then the law is absolutely not on your side if someone wants to spend the money to go after you.

Quote:
Wyvern is one of those things. It was born, lived a long and happy life, and died like things must do. Its not coming back. But taking the memory of it and using that feeling to build something new, that's magic.
I can't really comment on this too much. You will have to wait until Rhialto is comfortable speaking about things again. But you are incorrect. I may be highly skeptical as to Rhialto's plans at present, but one way or another the game will return as he would open source it rather than let it die, it's just a matter of how much time passes before he goes that route if he hits yet another roadblock.

Quote:
The term 'rebuild' doesn't mean reuse,recant,copy, disassemble,borrow or steal. It means to re-construct something. And I don't know where you came from or how you were raised, or how you were taught, but down here were I'm from, when you rebuild something; You start from the foundation after its been repaired and build everything anew. Nothing from the original is/was reused. It was modeled after, maybe even closely replicated to the finest details. But when its finished its a completely new object only closely resembling the original.
The bolded parts conflict with your earlier statements. You can't argue that I shouldn't have taken "rebuild" to mean something to you other than what I took it to mean and then say that it "maybe even" means exactly what I was saying. Also your use the words "only CLOSELY" is laughable and if you don't get why that is just really sad.

Quote:
it wasnt about me, it was about what could 'WE" accomplish
You do realize that you are making claims of what the fragmented Wyvern community could achieve without having been around for a long time while arguing with someone who has consistently been here for over 10 years, right? Take it from someone who knows the community - You have a few programmers around, but they're mostly young adults who have little to no work experience in the field of computer programming and you're going to need real professional coders to accomplish such a feat. Those who are professional, tend to be newly working and so they don't have time to devote to such an extensive side project (even if they say they do, I promise you that they are likely to drop out and become inactive shortly after getting involved as happens in most of these situations). As to those who are highly qualified individuals, they tend to be more inclined to work on something of their own.

Do you think that this hasn't been proposed before and you've come up with a novel concept? Sorry, but it has... many times, in fact, and every time it is met with inaction. So excuse me if I don't think you're going to be the one to rally the troops after hearing the same pitch a bunch of times while you weren't around.

For artists; you have almost nobody around who is qualified. It doesn't matter if you're a good or bad player; you can submit art to the game without ever having to become a wiz, but we weren't really getting anything. You have a few people who can make hof quality art (not game quality art) and then you have a few who are talented but lazy and so they have either never submitted one of the few things that they made in the game's style or they only ever submitted us a few things. Everyone else had been promoted.

For mapmakers; there's basically nobody in the player community. We got very few submissions toward the end and none of them were good. For those who couldn't be a wizard because of admin issues; I've seen several of them post pictures of their maps (feel free to do the same Exile and I can tell you what's wrong with them ) or try to send us their maps anyway under the basis that they were so amazing that we'd forget their past and promote them. Well, none of them were good either. Maybe you can luck out and find the one person who was secretly an amazing mapmaker that somehow escaped our notice, but I doubt it. It's easy to be optimistic about this sort of thing when you haven't been around and have zero first hand experience trying to find wizard recruits, but I don't have such luxuries.
  #16  
Old 09-28-2013, 06:13 AM
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Is it sad if I saw the $500 offer and immediately laughed because the game has won I think it was $20,000 from a competition way back when. where after inflation that equates to probably around $50,000 nowadays. (maybe less I'm not an economics pro)
  #17  
Old 09-28-2013, 06:19 AM
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It won $10,000 in 2002, which probably has the value of $13,000 today.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:23 AM
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I wasn't completely sure on the amount it won. And, as I said I'm not an economics expert.
  #19  
Old 09-28-2013, 09:48 AM
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Hah, I read the "For artists" part and it was like it was describing me perfectly. At the very least the part about making stuff and then not submitting it due to being lazy and making HoF art. Whether my stuff was good enough for the game I dunno. As stated I never submitted anything so I never found out.

*Disclaimer*
This is not me saying "I'm willing to be an artist for your project". I just thought that part of the post was horribly relevant to myself.
  #20  
Old 09-28-2013, 10:34 AM
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Hah, I read the "For artists" part and it was like it was describing me perfectly. At the very least the part about making stuff and then not submitting it due to being lazy and making HoF art. Whether my stuff was good enough for the game I dunno. As stated I never submitted anything so I never found out.

*Disclaimer*
This is not me saying "I'm willing to be an artist for your project". I just thought that part of the post was horribly relevant to myself.
lol You are one the people I had in mind when I wrote that - You had some really well done game art that is very much at the quality of people we promote as art wizards. So, had you gone through the trouble of submitting any it we absolutely would have used it. But you didn't and you only ever bothered to put together a couple handfuls of non-hof artwork.

The other person I had in mind is Logwad - I think he submitted one thing to Teshuvah in all the years that he has been around, but he too had a very small, but nonetheless high quality collection that he wasn't very interested in building up/submitting.
 


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