Archers Guild is too Weak

[Joca]

Originally Posted by Arilou

Correction, meleers are good at lqs that were made to favor them. A lot of bosses have had high magical resistances and low or non-existent melee resistences. This is something that has been in the process of changing. Some lqs will favor one type of player, some with favor another, some will be more of a free for all.

Name all the LQs an archer has won..how about a mage?

K name the ones a meleer has won.
Bottom line is, if you want to win a lot of LQs, you go with melee.

Originally Posted by Hamel

Actually, mages are not all that great in PK, as resists are quite easy to get.

As easy as it is to get resists, until you get them, mages will destroy you. You'll get lucky to hit them for long enough that they die. Odds are they're not gonna just stand there and let you. They'll run away and shoot you with their black magic. For all the years that I played the game, mages have dominated PK arena. Who's the strongest PKer? Last time I played it was myke. Don't know if he still is, haven't played in months.

Originally Posted by Razen

Have you ever even played an archer.? They are easier than mages and meleers. They can kill monsters without taking damage(like Teshuvah said) and they can also kill stronger monsters with better loot and more XP. They can potentially level up faster than meleers and make more money than mages.

Yes I've played an archer as well as a mage and several melee characters to at least a couple levels past HoF. From MY personal experience, archers are not as good as meleers or mages when it comes to PvE

Sure, you can deal damage without getting hit, and this makes archery a decent choice for earlier levels. When it comes to RDing, archery is the least practical of the three. First off, there are times when you'll be in constant motion because there's so much going on. Second, there's picking up all your arrows. If you put an archer, a meleer, and a mage in separate RDs at the same time for an hour each, the archer would come out with the least XP gained.

Like I said, it's not that they're hard, just not nearly as practical as the other two options.

If you wanna be an archer, don't plan on excelling at anything, because it won't happen.

[Arilou]

Originally Posted by Logwad

But that was when bows were made out of wood. We have bows made out of GOLD now. Would you want to be hit by an awkwardly shaped rod of gold?

Did you miss the part where I said "their weapon will" in relation to the bow being destroyed. Not only is the string an easy target, which will effectly disable any bow until you have a chance to replace it, but any bow, made of any realistic material (unrealistic materials are too strong to make a workable bow out of) is fragile and not going to hold up against blows from an enemy's weapon. The Indians made steel bows and their only real pratical use was that if it was probably stored, it could be pulled out of storage in good condition and ready to be used. But it didn't have the range of a proper bow and it would not have been a good idea to use it as a club or as a defensive weapon in close combat.

Originally Posted by Joca

Name all the LQs an archer has won..how about a mage?

K name the ones a meleer has won.
Bottom line is, if you want to win a lot of LQs, you go with melee.

Although I don't like to call it a lq, mages won 2 out of 4 of the Morgos tests. So, it's very easy to make it so that mages have a solid chance, and it's even easier to make it so they can dominate one like meleers have done with Jancia's auto-lqs. Bottom line, you don't know what you're talking about. Your experiences are clouded by those high magical resist ones that Janica put together. But as I said, we will be putting forth more lqs that offer a wide array of challenges and there have long been different types of wizard run lqs that you probably never knew existed unless you were on 24/7 since 2002 (some were one time deals, some haven't been done in ages, etc.). Auto-lqs are not the end all and be all of live questing.

Further more, things can even be done to give archers an advantage, although it's a bit of a challenge for them since we have meleers who use stab in close range. So, we would have to give the monsters high magical resists and something that makes it very difficult for meleers to camp next to a monster. Which can be done a number of ways.

[Logwad]

To be clear I was being plain silly up unto the point where I said "But seriously". I had hoped that pointing out the silly weapon material and the picture of the "composite dire bow" would be seen as sarcasm.

I remember when archers could melee with bows, and we could melee almost as well as meleers. It was unbalanced.

[Mustard]

Heres Something...do throwing knives/ninja stars and other thrown objects count as range or hurled? If they count as range it would be nice to use throwing knives as hand to hand combat...either that or this should be incorporated into the hurled combat

[Logwad]

They are hurled.

Anything you need a launcher for is ranged.

[Joca]

Originally Posted by Arilou

Although I don't like to call it a lq, mages won 2 out of 4 of the Morgos tests. Bottom line, you don't know what you're talking about. But as I said, we will be putting forth more lqs that offer a wide array of challenges and there have long been different types of wizard run lqs that you probably never knew existed unless you were on 24/7 since 2002 (some were one time deals, some haven't been done in ages, etc.). Auto-lqs are not the end all and be all of live questing.

Further more, things can even be done to give archers an advantage, although it's a bit of a challenge for them since we have meleers who use stab in close range. So, we would have to give the monsters high magical resists and something that makes it very difficult for meleers to camp next to a monster. Which can be done a number of ways.

Well since my original argument was that if you want to win LQs, your best bet is melee, you haven't proven anything to me. It's nice that there are things that you CAN do, and MIGHT do in the future to give mages an advantage, but even if you did, archers still wouldn't compare.

Whether or not those LQs that have been around since 2002 that allowed meleers to constantly win, the point is, they're still around and meleers are still winning em. Sure, mages won 2 out of 4 morgos LQs. Who won the other two? Archers? Right.

And like you just said "it's a bit of a challenge for them (archers) since we have meleers who use stab in close range"

So you basically just supported my point.

[Arilou]

Originally Posted by Joca

Well since my original argument was that if you want to win LQs, your best bet is melee, you haven't proven anything to me. It's nice that there are things that you CAN do, and MIGHT do in the future to give mages an advantage, but even if you did, archers still wouldn't compare.

Whether or not those LQs that have been around since 2002 that allowed meleers to constantly win, the point is, they're still around and meleers are still winning em. Sure, mages won 2 out of 4 morgos LQs. Who won the other two? Archers? Right.

And like you just said "it's a bit of a challenge for them (archers) since we have meleers who use stab in close range"

So you basically just supported my point.

No, you just ignored the whole second paragraph of my post which said there are things we can do to make it so archers have not only a good shot of killing lq monsters, but a higher than average one [just like we've been doing for mages]. And we WILL. We just added a new automated live quest system where we can easily add new lqs to run along with the original 4 Janica ones. Some are bound to be geared toward archers, some are bound to be geared toward mages, some are bound to be free for alls, some are bound to be geared toward specific melee classes, some will continue to pattern of those original ones, and so on. Janica didn't provide a proper balance of bosses, this true, but using that in an argument of why archers need to be beefed up when I've already explained that this is in the process of changing, is pointless.

[Icy]

"In the proces of changing, [...]"

That sounds nice, but if it doesn't happen soon, then there will be no stopping the regular complaints (this being one of them, I suppose) that go "Archers are disadvantaged/weak" "Archers have no chance in lq's" "Mages and melee'rs completely own the current archers..." I have faith in the wizards, and maybe lq's will be more enjoyable in the future.

[Arisu]

quoted for truth

Originally Posted by Logwad

Archers are a unique class in that they are mostly intended towards masochists.

[Mustard]

Having just looked up "masochists" via dictionary.com, I am very disturbed and uncomfortable around archers now. I don't even know why I still have an archer...

I can't wait to see archer-favoring lqs. Even though I don't see how any archer can do something better than a full healing meeler, I have faith in some of our wizards.

[Hamel]

Originally Posted by Joca

As easy as it is to get resists, until you get them, mages will destroy you. You'll get lucky to hit them for long enough that they die. Odds are they're not gonna just stand there and let you. They'll run away and shoot you with their black magic. For all the years that I played the game, mages have dominated PK arena. Who's the strongest PKer? Last time I played it was myke. Don't know if he still is, haven't played in months.

Bah, any meleer worth his beans can outrun a exploding ball spell, and there is a difference between strongest, and leading.

Eh, but I've found that arguing on the internet is a pointless affiliation, as you will never convince the other person that you are right.
So you keep on believing what you wish to believe, and I will what I wish to believe.

[blazerv]

Well my archer does impale damage and I know a lot of meleers who do impale also =/ so i dont know how archers can win an lq D=.

Originally Posted by Teshuvah

They also excel at being more fun to play!

Archers are very boring to play. Hiding in a corner shooting arrows at a monster that most likely can't see you is not exciting at all.

Tis' your fighting style with archers because I am clearly missing the excitement?

[Icy]

Quote my wyverneer friend talking to me right now:

"Meleers are boring to play. They're just two people standing next to each other, and one of them disappears. In pk, anyways. More or less the same with meleers killing monsters. Except the monsters have corpses."

Archers, you have to learn how to run around and dodge spells (no good for resists), learn how to spam just enough arrows to give you time to react when the monster decides to spam X spell at you ...etc, etc. And you have to learn how to not get stuck in the kind of corner where the big monster which melees quite hard decides to trap you in and pound you to death. Yeah.

Originally Posted by Icy

Quote my wyverneer friend talking to me right now:

"Meleers are boring to play. They're just two people standing next to each other, and one of them disappears. In pk, anyways. More or less the same with meleers killing monsters. Except the monsters have corpses."

Archers, you have to learn how to run around and dodge spells (no good for resists), learn how to spam just enough arrows to give you time to react when the monster decides to spam X spell at you ...etc, etc. And you have to learn how to not get stuck in the kind of corner where the big monster which melees quite hard decides to trap you in and pound you to death. Yeah.

I suppose that could be fun for some people. But if you think about it, that is short-lived. Once you figure out how to do that it also becomes very boring. Wyvern has that unique quality to it. You can't stay away from it, but it bores you to death after a while.

[Joca]

Originally Posted by Arilou

No, you just ignored the whole second paragraph of my post which said there are things we can do to make it so archers have not only a good shot of killing lq monsters, but a higher than average one [just like we've been doing for mages]. And we WILL. We just added a new automated live quest system where we can easily add new lqs to run along with the original 4 Janica ones.

Well until you actually do add these LQs, then there's really nothing you can say to disprove my point.
It's like if I said Michael Phelps is the fastest swimmer known world wide and you said "NO! because my brother CAN get faster then him if he WORKS OUT MORE!"
Until you're brother does it, Phelps will still dominate.

And until you implement whatever you're talking about into the game, meleers will still dominate a notable majority of LQs.

We could just stop this argument now if you told me something that Archers are better at than meleers or mages.

Until then, the archers guild is too weak. I understand that this game is in beta and improvements are being made to create balance. But the game isn't balanced YET, and until then, the title of this thread will still be valid.

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Joca

Well until you actually do add these LQs, then there's really nothing you can say to disprove my point.
It's like if I said Michael Phelps is the fastest swimmer known world wide and you said "NO! because my brother CAN get faster then him if he WORKS OUT MORE!"
Until you're brother does it, Phelps will still dominate.

And until you implement whatever you're talking about into the game, meleers will still dominate a notable majority of LQs.

We could just stop this argument now if you told me something that Archers are better at than meleers or mages.

Until then, the archers guild is too weak. I understand that this game is in beta and improvements are being made to create balance. But the game isn't balanced YET, and until then, the title of this thread will still be valid.

Be sure to add, in your opinion, because I gave you a list of things archers are better at.
Just because one of those isnt currently LQs , which is an extremely minor part of the game, doesnt make them weak.
You really can play wyvern and not LQ

[Arilou]

Originally Posted by Joca

Well until you actually do add these LQs, then there's really nothing you can say to disprove my point.
It's like if I said Michael Phelps is the fastest swimmer known world wide and you said "NO! because my brother CAN get faster then him if he WORKS OUT MORE!"
Until you're brother does it, Phelps will still dominate.

Those are people, this is a game. I work on said game, I know said game...It's not the same thing (a game makes use of cold hard numbers, people do not). Meleers have the advantage in lqs where the boss has little to no melee resist and high magical resists. You have no idea what stats they have, I do. I therefore know why meleers win and what needs to be done to make a right combination of stats in other lq monsters so they can't win so easily.

And until you implement whatever you're talking about into the game, meleers will still dominate a notable majority of LQs.

A) Again, not a majority of LQs, just a majority of the 4 Janica auto-lqs that were carried over into the new system.

B) Not 10 minutes before your post, a new lq just ended and meleers didn't have a chance against 1 of the 2 bosses. Had an archer been there from the start he or she would've had a good chance of winning but, aside from a giant trying to use arrows part of the time, none were on.

We could just stop this argument now if you told me something that Archers are better at than meleers or mages.

Other people did, I'm not going to repeat what they said. Go back and read through the thread.

[Valkon]

Originally Posted by Joca

Well until you actually do add these LQs, then there's really nothing you can say to disprove my point.
It's like if I said Michael Phelps is the fastest swimmer known world wide and you said "NO! because my brother CAN get faster then him if he WORKS OUT MORE!"
Until you're brother does it, Phelps will still dominate.

And until you implement whatever you're talking about into the game, meleers will still dominate a notable majority of LQs.

We could just stop this argument now if you told me something that Archers are better at than meleers or mages.

Until then, the archers guild is too weak. I understand that this game is in beta and improvements are being made to create balance. But the game isn't balanced YET, and until then, the title of this thread will still be valid.

Archers are only 1 of 8 guilds. 6 of which are melee.

There are only a few LQs at the moment. So it's only logical that the majority of LQs is melee based.

btw. Marchus LQ was just won by a mage. Just as a mage did very well during the last full gauntlet.