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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:00 PM
Rarkvar Rarkvar is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Default Redo The recent Spell update? Yay or Nay.

Yesterday when I was "Whinning" about the spell changes was a completely legitimate argument but it wasn't put together which made it look very weak and like a normal player complaining.

This is pretty much what I told Glacio:
"first to last updates-
25 fire magic= 6 fireballs that do a lot of damage but costs 12 SP for each
25 fire magic = 1 fireball as strong as 5 or 6 that costs 36 SP for each
25 fire magic = 1 fireball that is weaker than 2 that costs 6 SP each"

I'm not saying completely undo the update, just make another one.
The reason that I'm assuming that so many mages appreciate the update is because they have yet to find out how hard things are. I went from about 3 - 4 fireballs to kill a reaper, to probably 10+
Also, if the wizards have been changing the spells strength according to the SP cost, then they're weaker than they started out. If it costs me 12 SP for one weak one, then 36 for an amazing fireball, and now it costs 6 sp. Plus, a good fireball/blizzard combination seems like a really big deal considering that mages aren't supposed to get close to their enemies. I wouldn't necessarily say firespray or dragon breath could be used when fighting two reapers, a monopod, and a harpy... That would be the perfect set up to be paralyzed, confused, fear'd, and then thunderstorm'd to death. Arilou would be the only one having a good time at that point.

Sure, I could retrain. I am a level 26 Arch-Mage HoF. Yet I need skill points in areas such as Mind, spirit, earth, and air. So if I untrain some evocation because fireball costs less, and maybe some meditation because I will have more SP to spare, I still cannot train in Find-Weakness to make my spells stronger.

Another point is different spells.
I only have a few offensive spells available. Fireball, blizzard, firespray, ice storm, frostwave, thunderstorm, dragon breath, fire frost, fire bolt, sandstorm, and lightning bolt.

Out of those I have fireball, blizzard, firespray, ice storm, firefrost, and firebolt. Frost wave would make me get extremely close to enemies, which would cause problems due to my low mind skill seeing as how I cannot completely resist feat, confusion, paralysis, and slow. Thunderstorm's reagants are expensive and weigh a lot. I also only have 3 air. Dragon breath requires a death skill and the reagants are expensive. I go through 100 sulfur pretty quickly, which is 100 gold. 100 DB's cost 10,000 gold. Which is almost all of my loot gold from an RD considering I don't have the skill points to train in merchant. Sandstorm is a spell I want to try and see how strong it's gotten, but I honestly cannot put up the skill points to train more earth.

That's my sad story. So sad, almost makes you want to cry.
I have a few solutions in mind that could make this work.
1- Undo the update all together.
Probably won't happen.
2- Increase the strength of the fireball and blizzard spells
3- Increase the sp cost to about 24 and increase the strength accordingly. That will put it about in between.
4- (My favorite), Change the Mage's guild. If the Mage's guild is going to be updated, wouldn't it be appropriate to do it with the spell changes? The only thing I would change about the mages guild is either one skill point in every element, art, etc, or giving a skill point in either the fire, water, death, air, earth, etc skills at levels 5 and 10 of the guild. Even putting two extra skill points in the arts instead of offensive skills would be extremely helpful. Mage's require the most skill points. As my rogue, all I need is some blade, find weakness, spirit travel, healing, mind, meditation, and merchant. I can untrain the skill points I've put in lock-picking because the guild gives me 10 anyways. As a mage, though, I need, fire, water, earth, air, death, mind, evocation, incantation, spirit, mediation, and life just to be able to kill a few monsters. The guild gives us so many negative skills, but doesn't give us any positive skills.

5- New spells such as some monster only spells. Then again, if players could have them, they wouldn't be monster only anymore. Earthquake and sonic boom would be good editions to the spells list. They would also encourage some mages to go outside of being the obvious fire/ice mage. Every mage has fire and ice spells, because there is no variety. Sure you could be a thundermage, but you only have 2 spells at your disposal.

I'm not going to be an annoying stubborn player that just wants everything to go my way and be easy, I would like a logical discussion on most of these topics that I've addressed. I've already taken Contrare's and Teshuvah's advice and untrained some meditation and evocation, but I'm running low on gold sooooooo :/
  #2  
Old 03-26-2010, 01:31 PM
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Teshuvah Teshuvah is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarkvar View Post
Yesterday when I was "Whinning" about the spell changes was a completely legitimate argument but it wasn't put together which made it look very weak and like a normal player complaining.

This is pretty much what I told Glacio:
"first to last updates-
25 fire magic= 6 fireballs that do a lot of damage but costs 12 SP for each
25 fire magic = 1 fireball as strong as 5 or 6 that costs 36 SP for each
25 fire magic = 1 fireball that is weaker than 2 that costs 6 SP each"

I'm not saying completely undo the update, just make another one.
The reason that I'm assuming that so many mages appreciate the update is because they have yet to find out how hard things are. I went from about 3 - 4 fireballs to kill a reaper, to probably 10+
Also, if the wizards have been changing the spells strength according to the SP cost, then they're weaker than they started out. If it costs me 12 SP for one weak one, then 36 for an amazing fireball, and now it costs 6 sp. Plus, a good fireball/blizzard combination seems like a really big deal considering that mages aren't supposed to get close to their enemies. I wouldn't necessarily say firespray or dragon breath could be used when fighting two reapers, a monopod, and a harpy... That would be the perfect set up to be paralyzed, confused, fear'd, and then thunderstorm'd to death. Arilou would be the only one having a good time at that point.

Sure, I could retrain. I am a level 26 Arch-Mage HoF. Yet I need skill points in areas such as Mind, spirit, earth, and air. So if I untrain some evocation because fireball costs less, and maybe some meditation because I will have more SP to spare, I still cannot train in Find-Weakness to make my spells stronger.

Another point is different spells.
I only have a few offensive spells available. Fireball, blizzard, firespray, ice storm, frostwave, thunderstorm, dragon breath, fire frost, fire bolt, sandstorm, and lightning bolt.

Out of those I have fireball, blizzard, firespray, ice storm, firefrost, and firebolt. Frost wave would make me get extremely close to enemies, which would cause problems due to my low mind skill seeing as how I cannot completely resist feat, confusion, paralysis, and slow. Thunderstorm's reagants are expensive and weigh a lot. I also only have 3 air. Dragon breath requires a death skill and the reagants are expensive. I go through 100 sulfur pretty quickly, which is 100 gold. 100 DB's cost 10,000 gold. Which is almost all of my loot gold from an RD considering I don't have the skill points to train in merchant. Sandstorm is a spell I want to try and see how strong it's gotten, but I honestly cannot put up the skill points to train more earth.

That's my sad story. So sad, almost makes you want to cry.
I have a few solutions in mind that could make this work.
1- Undo the update all together.
Probably won't happen.
2- Increase the strength of the fireball and blizzard spells
3- Increase the sp cost to about 24 and increase the strength accordingly. That will put it about in between.
4- (My favorite), Change the Mage's guild. If the Mage's guild is going to be updated, wouldn't it be appropriate to do it with the spell changes? The only thing I would change about the mages guild is either one skill point in every element, art, etc, or giving a skill point in either the fire, water, death, air, earth, etc skills at levels 5 and 10 of the guild. Even putting two extra skill points in the arts instead of offensive skills would be extremely helpful. Mage's require the most skill points. As my rogue, all I need is some blade, find weakness, spirit travel, healing, mind, meditation, and merchant. I can untrain the skill points I've put in lock-picking because the guild gives me 10 anyways. As a mage, though, I need, fire, water, earth, air, death, mind, evocation, incantation, spirit, mediation, and life just to be able to kill a few monsters. The guild gives us so many negative skills, but doesn't give us any positive skills.

5- New spells such as some monster only spells. Then again, if players could have them, they wouldn't be monster only anymore. Earthquake and sonic boom would be good editions to the spells list. They would also encourage some mages to go outside of being the obvious fire/ice mage. Every mage has fire and ice spells, because there is no variety. Sure you could be a thundermage, but you only have 2 spells at your disposal.

I'm not going to be an annoying stubborn player that just wants everything to go my way and be easy, I would like a logical discussion on most of these topics that I've addressed. I've already taken Contrare's and Teshuvah's advice and untrained some meditation and evocation, but I'm running low on gold sooooooo :/
Relying on only ball spells isnt a good way to go. Ball spells are still stronger than they were before the first change. And most players are quite happy with a lot more mana to use.

Im sure you will get retrained and do fine with 4 skill points a level you have plenty to adjust.

You were the one whining because of too much mana use last time and begged us to change it back lol
  #3  
Old 03-26-2010, 02:40 PM
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Arilou Arilou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarkvar View Post
New spells such as some monster only spells. Then again, if players could have them, they wouldn't be monster only anymore. Earthquake and sonic boom would be good editions to the spells list. They would also encourage some mages to go outside of being the obvious fire/ice mage. Every mage has fire and ice spells, because there is no variety. Sure you could be a thundermage, but you only have 2 spells at your disposal
I thought we made it clear in shouts that we have no intention of allowing players to cast monster only spells. They're monster only for a reason and it's been like that for a long time so we see no reason to change it. You're welcome to make suggestions for new spells, but you're not welcome to keep pestering us about established monster only spells when we've already made our position clear.
  #4  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:35 PM
Rarkvar Rarkvar is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
I thought we made it clear in shouts that we have no intention of allowing players to cast monster only spells. They're monster only for a reason and it's been like that for a long time so we see no reason to change it. You're welcome to make suggestions for new spells, but you're not welcome to keep pestering us about established monster only spells when we've already made our position clear.
I was unaware that we had already discussed monster only spells. I probably forgot. No problem.
  #5  
Old 05-16-2010, 10:52 AM
Clevyn Clevyn is offline
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
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I feel that the ball spells are good where they are, though I personally wish I could cast 2 or so at a time... I find the problem to lie in the duration of the Ball spells, making me wish I could Dispel them when I cast the wrong way or something.. Still, I guess I'm just suffering for my mistakes...
  #6  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:04 PM
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banichi banichi is offline
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevyn View Post
wish I could cast 2 or so at a time... I find the problem to lie in the duration of the Ball spells
Not sure if this is possible, but maybe make it so you can cast like 1.5 at a time? So when one stops expanding you can cast another. That way you do not have to wait as long, but cannot cast 2 or more at once. Just a thought...
  #7  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:46 AM
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Valkon Valkon is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banichi View Post
Not sure if this is possible, but maybe make it so you can cast like 1.5 at a time? So when one stops expanding you can cast another. That way you do not have to wait as long, but cannot cast 2 or more at once. Just a thought...
I think that is possible, by using a timer instead of a counter, but the idea is that you should move on to different more powerful spells. Remember that you can choose to forget spells that you no longer or rarely use.

I've watched lots of mages play and most of them have no idea how to play them properly, they go way too close to the monsters.
  #8  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:02 PM
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Trayr Trayr is offline
 

Join Date: May 2009
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The amount of damage that fireballs do seems to be fine. I mean, it's not like it is a high lore spell or anything. It is just 4 lore, 5k to purchase, and does not require any reagents. I don't think spells that are so easy to cast and have such low lore levels should really be super strong.

~~Raey
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