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  #1  
Old 09-22-2010, 11:11 AM
cyrxi cyrxi is offline
 

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Default First Character: Human Melee/Magic

I just stumbled on to Wyvern a few days ago and it seems like it's going to be pretty cool - the website definitely has a ton of info which is awesome, but I haven't found much info on builds (or even how much to put into certain skills).

I originally made a halfling and was leaning toward ranged/magic, but after reading some more I think I'm going to make a new human character to start off and "get into" the game.

I generally play mage characters, but I figured it's going to be easier to learn (and play) with a character who has good fighting ability. I would love to do a 50/50 Melee/Magic type character if it's viable, but I can definitely lean more toward Melee with just a smattering of magic if the 50/50 build will hold me back too much.

Questions:
Is it viable to train a weapon up high enough to overcome to penalties of joining the Mage Guild later?
If not, is it worthwhile to use a staff (seems like the only weapon that doesn't get penalized)?
Or am I better off using a sword, forgoing death magic, and going for the Paladin Guild?
Or, do I not need to worry about a guild, and if so, what's the best weapon type to start training for?

Edit: I should probably note that I am coming from a MUD background here, which is why Wyvern seems "pretty cool" to me.
  #2  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:40 PM
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themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

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There are some very viable magic/melee combinations out there, though it can be tricky to balance your skills. If you make your magic very potent, having a reduced melee skill won't be too big a deal. A lot of mages have managed to be killers in close range and long distance. There are rings which you can find at higher levels that add +3 to a weapon skill, so two of these would nearly counter the guild penalty.

If you don't mind short range skills you can consider the conjurers guild instead of mages. They use whips, and one imparticular called magic whip - which is a spell you cast. For that you would want to train death magic and whips.

As far as surviving goes, magic users tend to love mana shield. Its based on your mind and spirit magic, and puts up to 70% of the damage you are dealt onto your spellpoints instead of hitpoints. For that you would want to aim for 7 spirit magic, and then to increase its duration you train mind magic. A lot of people get by with just a couple points in mind, and recast it frequently.

If you want to get really powerful with magic and melee you could also consider training in fire or water, and casting spells like Flame Blade or Frost Blade on your weapon, and wearing a Flameshield or Frostshield. Those are very cool spells, the blade spells add a lot of elemental damage to physical attacks, and the shield spells damage anything within one tile of your character.

Sorry I turned that into a wall of text. If you need help when you're on look me up.
  #3  
Old 09-22-2010, 02:49 PM
cyrxi cyrxi is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by themadhobo View Post
If you don't mind short range skills you can consider the conjurers guild instead of mages. They use whips, and one imparticular called magic whip - which is a spell you cast. For that you would want to train death magic and whips.
I didn't even know there was a conjurers guild, I don't think it's listed on the website. This is probably exactly the type of thing I was looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by themadhobo View Post
As far as surviving goes, magic users tend to love mana shield. Its based on your mind and spirit magic, and puts up to 70% of the damage you are dealt onto your spellpoints instead of hitpoints.
So I'm guessing this would let me focus more on meditation and my magic skills and put less (if any?) into healing - this is also great news for the type of build I'm hoping for!

Overall, it sounds like I'll be able to concentrate more of my skills on magic than I thought, but still have a really solid melee option. Is it viable to to combine your fire or water suggestion with the conjurers guild or am I better off just doing one or the other?

I don't at all mind the "wall of text" (I think my posts have been longer) - and I'll definitely contact you in game if I see you.

Additional questions about skills since I'm new and don't want to screw up my character too bad:
  • I'm guessing for what I'm going for I should put 1 into lore and whip every level and then try to get as many points into meditation/death and my 7 in spirit/2-3 in Mind as I level up?
  • Is there any point when I should stop training lore and/or whip?
  • What about meditation/death - how many point should I be aiming for here?
  • Are there any other skills that I should consider and/or that are kind of necessary?
  • Edit: Specifically what about things like Dodging/Strength/Find Weakness?
  #4  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:37 PM
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Teshuvah Teshuvah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrxi View Post
I didn't even know there was a conjurers guild, I don't think it's listed on the website. This is probably exactly the type of thing I was looking for.

So I'm guessing this would let me focus more on meditation and my magic skills and put less (if any?) into healing - this is also great news for the type of build I'm hoping for!

Overall, it sounds like I'll be able to concentrate more of my skills on magic than I thought, but still have a really solid melee option. Is it viable to to combine your fire or water suggestion with the conjurers guild or am I better off just doing one or the other?

I don't at all mind the "wall of text" (I think my posts have been longer) - and I'll definitely contact you in game if I see you.

Additional questions about skills since I'm new and don't want to screw up my character too bad:
  • I'm guessing for what I'm going for I should put 1 into lore and whip every level and then try to get as many points into meditation/death and my 7 in spirit/2-3 in Mind as I level up?
  • Is there any point when I should stop training lore and/or whip?
  • What about meditation/death - how many point should I be aiming for here?
  • Are there any other skills that I should consider and/or that are kind of necessary?
  • Edit: Specifically what about things like Dodging/Strength/Find Weakness?
The guild is called Rangers guild. It has a conjurer's side. It is in the manual.
  #5  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:48 PM
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I do not play very regularly anymore, but even with all of the changes, I can offer some pretty good info in my opinion so I'll help out with some of your questions.

1. Keeping whips trained to your level is a pretty good idea. More whips = more damage in the long run as well as accuracy / attack speed (there is a cap on the speed and probably accuracy, but accuracy really doesn't affect you when fighting monsters-It's mostly for pvping, and attacking people with high dodge)

You don't really need to train 1 lore per level. I think you can get by with all the spells you will be able to use in the Conjurer's guild( It is actually the ranger's guild, but the guild is split into 2 sections, so if you want to look that up, that is on the player guide) with like 5 lore, 6 if you wanna get some crazy spells. You get a certain amount of lore points per lore skill, and the lore points are what you use to learn the spell.

Ex. You train 1 lore, you get 4 lore points. A level 1 spell takes 1 lore point to learn, so you have 3 remaining. So you can learn 3 more level 1 spells. In order to use a Lore 3 spell, you need 3 lore, and that uses 3 lore points to learn, which would leave you with extra lore points to spend on other spells, etc.

2. Think I answered this bullet, but to be clear, Training whips to your level is generally a good idea, but some people sacrifice some points in it to train in other elements for resists, for defense. Sacrifice damage for survivability basically.

3. Meditation is really a useful skill, and that depends on your needs and patience. The less meditation you have, and the more spells you cast or damage you take with mana shield, the more time you need to wait for your mana to rise again. 0 meditation = 1 mana regenerated every few secs. Each +1 in meditation adds 1 more mana regenerated every few secs. When I used to play, I liked to have high meditation on my ranger, roughly around 20-25. I believe I had 26 overall after guild bonus and my halfling bonus.

Death affects damage of your magic whip as well as your whip skill. This makes rangers quite powerful to an extent. Some monsters have magic resist, and that really hurts your damage vs them with magic whip. You can counter some of those resists of monsters by using a blade spell. Static blade was changed while I was playing, I believe it is only on the next attack, making flame blade and frost blade your 2 spells to use. Adding points in fire/water for those spells would be beneficial, and you also get better resists that way for survivability.

4. One of my favorite skills in Wyvern, is Merchant. It allows you to buy items from a store for cheaper, and allows you to sell items to a store for more. It has been awhile, so I do not remember the exact %'s on this, but I ran around with 5 merchant for the most part, sometimes getting to 10. The skill is pretty expensive, but it definitely pays for itself 10^10+ in the long run. Normally the most you can sell an item to the store is 1000 gold. With 5 merchant I believe the limit was raised to 1700 or something? And with 10 is 2000, but like I said, don't quote me on the exact numbers, it has been way too long lol.

Another skill I like, but isn't really necessary for a ranger, is blacksmith. If you decide to use another weapon based class, like axes or swords or something, it is very nice to have 1 point in blacksmith so you can appraise your gear/weapons. This allows you to get a better picture on the durability of your weapons and gear so you do not break anything.

5. As far as the other skills, strength is very helpful, as you can carry more without being burdened, meaning more loot, and more gear. It also means you do more damage. It is effective equally on all classes that use a weapon for damage, magic whip included. Something I always did was use a potion of strength to offset some of my skills so I could use them elsewhere, and a girdle of strength. The potion adds 5 strength for an hour, and the girdle +2. 20 strength is max, but I would definitely not have any less then 10 on any meleer, 20 would be my ideal number. That is just me though.

Dodge you can train, and I have trained if I had extra points. It is especially helpful for classes that can't use a certain item, such as rangers. You cannot use cloaks in the ranger guild, so training 10 points to offset that piece isn't a bad idea. You should work around your points though and be careful with what you train in the long run. You can untrain your skills, but it is costly. 5000 per skill to untrain.

Find-weakness. This is a helpful melee skill as well, but I usually leave it till last when making any of, well when I made any of my characters. I got my basic melee skills down, resists and survivability, and money making skills first before I added points in find-weakness. It is a purely offensive skill, so when you are training skills, be sure (Especially nowadays) that you also worry about defense. It is pretty easy to die if you don't play right.

Edited for spelling errors!
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Last edited by Ploog : 09-22-2010 at 03:53 PM.
  #6  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:52 PM
cyrxi cyrxi is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teshuvah View Post
The guild is called Rangers guild. It has a conjurer's side. It is in the manual.
I can't believe I missed it! Thank you!

Edit: And thank you Ploog, a lot of very helpful information!

Last edited by cyrxi : 09-22-2010 at 04:06 PM.
  #7  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:21 PM
cyrxi cyrxi is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploog View Post
Some monsters have magic resist, and that really hurts your damage vs them with magic whip. You can counter some of those resists of monsters by using a blade spell. Static blade was changed while I was playing, I believe it is only on the next attack, making flame blade and frost blade your 2 spells to use. Adding points in fire/water for those spells would be beneficial, and you also get better resists that way for survivability.
That's unfortunate about static blade as I get bonuses to air for being a Conjurer. What about Vampire Blade? Would that be at all useful, or not really because it's another death spell?
  #8  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:49 PM
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Ploog Ploog is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrxi View Post
That's unfortunate about static blade as I get bonuses to air for being a Conjurer. What about Vampire Blade? Would that be at all useful, or not really because it's another death spell?
Air is quite useful for other spells, so it helps out. I think it even helps the duration of magic whip, but that is irrelevant as it is easy and cheap to cast. Such spells as Flying, Darksight, Speed, Resist shock. Those are all very good air spells and the flying really helps out so you can use a different amulet other then 'of the eagle' such as 'of death protection'. Trust me when I say that it isn't worth it to not fly. =(

Vampire blade is very useful and you see a lot of people using it, but there is 1 downfall to it. You can only cast it on normal weapons. I mean just a regular bullwhip, or whip of thorns, or just whip. It will not cast on the conjured Magic Whip, or any whip that has a + stat such as damage or accuracy or durability. I have also heard that the durability on such whips, though it was improved, is still unreliable as far as lasting.

Magic whip I would say to use though still, having around 15 death magic or 20 would be nice in the long run, and then to counter the mobs with magic resist, use flame blade or frost blade. You should be able to kill anything with either of the 3.

Other fun spells with death is like darkness and stuff >.> I don't remember the whole spellbook arsenal for death spells but there was a few that was cool that a ranger could use. The main use though was for magic whip.
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  #9  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:39 AM
cyrxi cyrxi is offline
 

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Default Change of Plans

Thanks everyone for the awesome help and input. After writing out a bunch of different build options around Conjurer, I decided it was going to be too difficult to try and squeeze in everything I wanted to do, especially for my first character.

So then I decided I was going to go for Mages and just use a sword and compensate for the penalty with a few extra points in it... But after I started putting together a wish list for spells, I found that with what I was liking and a lot of the concept I was trying to go for, Life magic was popping up quite a bit. So I put a build together and was again stretching my points to try to get a bit of Life magic, pick an element, and stash a few points between mind/spirit for mana shield...

So I said "what do I need an element for, really" (and was going to focus on some of the neat mind spells), but once I dropped an element I realized wait, swords + life - I should go Paladin!

So that's where I've ended up, and I think I'll stick to it. It will be much easier to do this sort of "straightforward" build for my first Wyvern character
  #10  
Old 09-24-2010, 05:13 PM
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themadhobo themadhobo is offline
 

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Good call, paladins are awesome.
  #11  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:04 AM
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Irlazy Irlazy is offline
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If you need any swords send me a message... Yeah thats right I just advertised my smithing on a new players post for a spellsword style character... Don't judge me!
  #12  
Old 09-27-2010, 10:23 AM
cyrxi cyrxi is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by themadhobo View Post
Good call, paladins are awesome.
So are their any essential paladin skills I should know about (other than of course swords and life magic)?

Also, something I've been wondering with the Paladin route and bungling - do I wear heavy armor and just take it off to buff/heal, etc, or do I just wear cloth so I can cast any time I need to? Or is there some happy medium where I won't bungle too often but can still have decent armor?

Oh, and do shields add to my chance of bungling?

Finally, how do you tell what armor is better than other armor? Or what swords are better than others for that matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irlazy
If you need any swords send me a message... Yeah thats right I just advertised my smithing on a new players post for a spellsword style character... Don't judge me!
I'm not judging
  #13  
Old 09-27-2010, 09:54 PM
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Halloween Halloween is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrxi View Post
So are their any essential paladin skills I should know about (other than of course swords and life magic)?

Also, something I've been wondering with the Paladin route and bungling - do I wear heavy armor and just take it off to buff/heal, etc, or do I just wear cloth so I can cast any time I need to? Or is there some happy medium where I won't bungle too often but can still have decent armor?

Oh, and do shields add to my chance of bungling?

Finally, how do you tell what armor is better than other armor? Or what swords are better than others for that matter?


I'm not judging
-Essential? I would say strength is rather important, although I suppose you could get around that.

-There is non-bungling armor, although most of it is hard to get/has high requirements. The golden breastplate is the best that comes to mind that acts as armor AND allows spell casting (gold items don't bungle).

- Most shields do add to your chance of bungling. There are some shields that do not like the shield of power/arts, but it has its own penalties.

-Blacksmith skill.
  #14  
Old 09-28-2010, 07:30 AM
cyrxi cyrxi is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halloween View Post
-Essential? I would say strength is rather important, although I suppose you could get around that.

-There is non-bungling armor, although most of it is hard to get/has high requirements. The golden breastplate is the best that comes to mind that acts as armor AND allows spell casting (gold items don't bungle).

- Most shields do add to your chance of bungling. There are some shields that do not like the shield of power/arts, but it has its own penalties.

-Blacksmith skill.
Right, strength - I've already been training that - just forgot to put it on the list.

So it sounds like at high level I can definitely go for "caster armor" - any ideas what to do at low-mid levels? Right now I'm just wearing the best (and by best I mean most "value" when I ask at a shop) armor I can find and dealing with the bungling since really I just cast light and occasionally minor healing at this point (though it takes FOREVER to cast so it's hardly worth it). Am I best just sticking with this for now?

Good to know about the shields, I figured as much.

What about the blacksmith skill? Why is it so important?
  #15  
Old 09-29-2010, 10:05 PM
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Just remember that when you cast your most important spell (later on, that will be heal most likely) all you have to do is cast it once, and you shouldn't be in combat when you do it anyway, so you should only have to spam your alias a couple times until you cast it successfully. This of course runs into problems when you don't have time to regenerate mana, but that is where potions come into play, or you could leave the map or porta-hole. Essentially what I am saying is you can simply ignore the bungle factor and buy potions so you can use your alias over and over, or you can take a little longer to train by retreating to a safe area and allowing your spell points to heal. Obviously these problems disappear if you buy non bungling armor, but it is another option, and in my opinion, the AC can outweigh the negatives. Feel free to make your own choices of course.
  #16  
Old 10-02-2010, 02:59 PM
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Here is what I do for bungling armor. Takes a little while, but works out of combat.
unwear shield; unwear mail; cast healing; wear shield; wear mail

I just have an alias that does that, just have to make sure you name the armor right
  #17  
Old 10-10-2010, 07:57 PM
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The issue with that is when you get cursed. It's best to just limit your amount of bungling gear so your not just wasting mana trying to cast. I have heard that it is a flat bungle rate for any amount of gear you have on. Ex. all nonbungle gear except 1 piece is the same as having all bungle gear on.

I don't know if that is true, but it seems to work better by limiting your bungle gear, and multi-casting.

A good thing to do is keep (blessed) scrolls of remove curse and remove dam.nation(should the second scroll still be available) I don't play often, and A lot has been added/removed. The blessed part allows the scroll to work more efficiently decursing more items. Back in the day, a blessed remove D scroll uncursed your whole inventory.
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:12 PM
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The thing with blacksmith is, if you get one point in it you will be able to see the exact % of damage a weapon or piece of armor had on it,
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