So are the Wizards gonna admit it?

[Shootout]

More objects that give resists (both elemental and status inflicting) but take different slots.
A pair of warm boots should protect me from the cold.
A thinking cap should help prevent me from getting confused.

[Kabroz]

Originally Posted by Trayr

If you have fought Zevran recently you know that free action is completely necessary. I know in your heads you are probably thinking free action potions, but that doesn't provide good enough resists to deal with it.

I made that mistake once... ended up having to wait for the spell to expire... darn my lack of air magic :P

[Trayr]

http://www.cabochon.com/wyvern/balance

[Electro]

I don't play anymore, so my opinion is probably moot, and feel free to disregard it if you want.

There really isn't anything to "admit". Yes, the population of the game has declined, and yes the sudden drastic changes no doubt have something to do with it, but that is not all there is to it. I personally started playing Wyvern when I was a young teenager..13 or 14, and I recently turned 21. The generation that has always populated Wyvern has grown up and moved on. Why spend all your time adjusting to a game when you can log onto your xbox live and "***" people with little to no effort.

But back to the changes; I know that the wizards were handcuffed about how they could carry out certain changes, but still, I felt like the immediate changes were made with little to no consultation of the playerbase. All of the changes were made beforehand, and then the players were asked to adjust and give feedback. This shouldn't have been a problem, but when you take a playerbase that is used to being invincible for so long and basically throw them to the wolves, they quit. And has been previously noted in the thread, the game is also exceedingly hard on new players. With the game being hard, and no more veteran players to offer help, the new players quit.

I do not know how to fix these problems, but I do not wish to see the game I loved growing up die like it appears to be doing. I would be glad to bounce feedback and return the game to its former prominence, but again, I have been gone a long time, and my opinion is probably moot. Wizards can get my email from my accounts, players can find some other player who has my AIM.

If this offended or is blatantly wrong, I apologize. Feel free to refute my opinions, I always enjoy a new chance to learn.

(Sorry for the obnoxiously long post)

[Arilou]

Originally Posted by Electro

This shouldn't have been a problem, but when you take a playerbase that is used to being invincible for so long and basically throw them to the wolves, they quit. And has been previously noted in the thread, the game is also exceedingly hard on new players. With the game being hard, and no more veteran players to offer help, the new players quit.

Yes, this is basically it. We knew we would forever lose players who became attracted to the game during the unbalanced eras, we're aware of the fact that the playerbase has been moving on without an influx of new players to replace them, and we knew there are those who aren't going to be interested in playing while so many dramatic changes are being made. Being aware of all this before we begun, we're not all that concerned.

As mentioned previously, the latest numbers have been a little low for our liking and we'd like to give it a little boost, but ultimately, we are a bit away from really working toward building up the playerbase. There are lots of promotional things we can do and ideas we have for making it easier for new players (some of which have been discussed with players in the suggestion forums) and we'd like to get around to focusing on the kind of fun updates that attract and maintain a strong playerbase. However, we need to get past this balance/bug fix stage first. While things are so chaotic, we're not at all interested in attracting new players, who will have a difficult time as we round out this stage and we can't get too distracted with other things as it will only prolong the length of time involved in getting us to the point where we can truly move on from this. Which is why I've been asking people to be patient (everything is pretty much on track).

[Crier]

One thing that I think turns people off is the lack of their involvement in development, I don't mean by like play testing or anything along those lines, what I mean is how we are kept in the dark about most of the things that are going on behind the scenes. There have been more updates recently, but the fact that most of the info we get on the updates is:

Originally Posted by Arilou

(everything is pretty much on track).

leaves a lot of people feeling like "Uh wha?"

What I would like to see isn't a play by play update like "This code was looked at and this line was fixed" but something more like "We are looking into things to help resists" or little one liner updates like that. Personally that would make things feel like more is happening and more things are going on and wouldn't "ambush" players with big changes.

And if this is rambling, I'm tired, my bad.

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Crier

One thing that I think turns people off is the lack of their involvement in development, I don't mean by like play testing or anything along those lines, what I mean is how we are kept in the dark about most of the things that are going on behind the scenes. There have been more updates recently, but the fact that most of the info we get on the updates is:


leaves a lot of people feeling like "Uh wha?"

What I would like to see isn't a play by play update like "This code was looked at and this line was fixed" but something more like "We are looking into things to help resists" or little one liner updates like that. Personally that would make things feel like more is happening and more things are going on and wouldn't "ambush" players with big changes.

And if this is rambling, I'm tired, my bad.

I have never played a game that let me know before making changes. So that can't be what you mean. *goes to reread*

You feel we didnt explain them well enough in the news for updates? So you feel the info on updates is..

as you said.


You said you were tired, so I'll let you explain more after sleep lol

[Crier]

What I meant basically was, not like what exactly was being changed, but just like a general update on the things that were being done. Kinda like what was done with the full healing change, where everyone was warned beforehand. Just like little one liners to tell people what y'all are working on.

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Crier

What I meant basically was, not like what exactly was being changed, but just like a general update on the things that were being done. Kinda like what was done with the full healing change, where everyone was warned beforehand. Just like little one liners to tell people what y'all are working on.

That's what we put in the news, so I guess I am still confused as to what you mean. In the news we put what is done and what is being worked on.

Originally Posted by Crier

What I meant basically was, not like what exactly was being changed, but just like a general update on the things that were being done. Kinda like what was done with the full healing change, where everyone was warned beforehand. Just like little one liners to tell people what y'all are working on.

I got some clarification from Crier ingame so wanted to explain here for the benefit of others.
He explained that an update often about what we were working on would be good.

We don't post up what we are working on for several reasons, not the least of which is that sometimes we dont finish what we are working on, for one reason or another, gears change, things come up etc, and then it just generates problems in the game if players are expecting something.
It also is not a quick thing to post up on the news, it takes quite a chunk of time to do so for various reasons, so its not something we take lightly and try to gather as much info as possible for each news post.

Hope that helps

[Demula]

Originally Posted by Zurgez

Bottom line, Wyvern is extremely difficult gameplay wise. There is a reason noone plays anymore. You have a great game style and very possible to restore the playerbase, but you will have to make things easier for newcomers and vets alike.

Ive started new just recently.with nothing to my name (thanks to a wizzie);p

anywho..I found it very easy. There are a few races that might have a hard time but for the most part..Just kill goblins using the autobag rule to drop cursed stuff. You can make a easy 1-2k from clearing low level dungeons and a couple other goblin spots. Train some weapon skill up and within no time your on your way! it really was easy....Kill some elfs soon as ya get the ability too!


Its really not hard...even if its your first time you only gotta know this..Kill stuff and sell the loot! train weapon of your choice...even if ya gonna be a mage..train 1-2 weapon skill to help the start...its really not hard

The problem I see is later on there are a few good loot spots...But i'd like more options in that area. (everyone craming AV and elfs). I'd like to see some mass mob spots (like goblins massed up in low level spots) I'd like to see a mass demon spot. Perhaps i do need to explore more...have spent the better part of this week exploring. There are alot more maps...and some are very beautiful. But alot of them are kinda empty..or not as much smash and bashing as I like =)

[Unknown]

Hello! This post is way too long, and I’m not planning to read it all... so sorry if some one already said this...

I think the main mayor failure of the game, was when you desired to take off the “GIVE” and the “PICK UP FROM OTHERS”... I know people was using this to cheat... i did it, having a character with 11 in merchant that was the “seller” of my party... but you know... THATS WHAT MADE THE GAME FUN!!! You where able to help new players, help yourself grow fast and strong, try new stuffs easily. My point is... it used to make the game from my point of view more fun... and yeah some players were able to get HOF in 1 day... so what? They loved the game that way, we used to see over 50 connected most of the time... (KEY WORD... most of the time, i remember lots of time over 100 during this time)

I don’t know what R vision for the game is... but I think the main goal should be make it fun, don’t you?

[Arilou]

There were over 60 players on during peek hours for a good 2+ years after that. Then the game was taken down. So, no, that has nothing to do with it. You're just using this thread (which is about current issues) to bring up things that are no longer relevant. The time when there were over 100 players online (during peek hours) was in 2003 when Rhialto was actively working on improving the server so it could support more players. It fell as he became less active and problems built up that made the game unplayable at previous numbers.

KEY WORDS: You don't know what you're talking about and are falling into the classic pattern of blaming unrelated issues for whatever it is you do not like. I cannot begin to tell you the number of things people have used to explain the changes in the playerbase over the years. They're often varied, outlandish, and more times than not, they're made by people who no longer play, and thus are unaware of current developments, but decide to bring it up anyway. Btw, it had actually been awhile since someone mentioned the particular one you did, but thank you for taking the time to do so in a thread you haven't even read.

In truth, things, as they stand, are as follows - The game had a surge of people playing right after it came back. It was exciting to see the game after so long and so people wanted to play it again. However, many of them had already moved on. They moved on in life, they moved on to other games. So it didn't last.

Others followed because issues went unresolved and they were led to believe things would be different this time with more frequent updates and so on. Chief among them was an issue with the server where it would lag if more than 30-40 players were on and would crash at around 60 doing high end tasks. As a result, we had 20-30 players on during peek hours for a year (up until we were able to work on things again). So, we not only lost people to the extended downtime, we lost people to issues which made it too frustrating to play. In the end, the bulk of our playerbase was from 2006 and we just cannot expect many of them to be interested in playing after so long.

Therefore, we need to work on attracting new players, but we're not there yet. First we need to finish what we're doing and then we'll work on that and see if we can entice some of the older ones back to the game. As mentioned time and time again, there are those among them who are just waiting for the game to become more stable.

[Fergy]

I understand Crier's want to know what changes are coming, and I understand the reasons why the Wizards can't post that they are working on those changes.

The only compromise I can think of, is for big game balance changes (like: healing nerf, spell power increase, resist nerf, AC reintroduction, etc) only announce when the change is complete but do not introduce the change for a few days.

It's also nice to receive hint's every now and then about what might be coming up, maybe create an oracle NPC. Make it a random lq. Pay 1k gold, and the oracle will tell you a prophecy. Most likely the oracle will tell you nonsense (think fortune cookie), but there would be a small chance that the oracle would tell you about a change that is in the works. Although every message should be so cryptic that it's near impossible to tell what is meant (if anything). . . It would mostly be for entertainment purposes, I'm sure the wizards would get a kick out of seeing what stupid things we think are going to happen because the oracle told a player "Something you lost will soon turn up."

[Trayr]

Originally Posted by Fergy

It's also nice to receive hint's every now and then about what might be coming up, maybe create an oracle NPC. Make it a random lq. Pay 1k gold, and the oracle will tell you a prophecy. Most likely the oracle will tell you nonsense (think fortune cookie), but there would be a small chance that the oracle would tell you about a change that is in the works. Although every message should be so cryptic that it's near impossible to tell what is meant (if anything). . . It would mostly be for entertainment purposes, I'm sure the wizards would get a kick out of seeing what stupid things we think are going to happen because the oracle told a player "Something you lost will soon turn up."

Sounds like a good way to get the rumor mill going.

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Trayr

Sounds like a good way to get the rumor mill going.

And sounds like way too much work when we'd rather be working on the things that are going in the news.

[Shootout]

Originally Posted by Unknown

I don’t know what R vision for the game is... but I think the main goal should be make it fun, don’t you?

I would like the game to be fun, and I'm sure many people are enjoying (or atleast appreciating) the changes being made but I can't say I do. It wasn't one change, it was the constant changes. A big factor for me was my friends. Sure, a recent change wouldn't help/hurt me, but maybe it'd have negative side effects on one of my friends and they'd leave. They left, I didn't want to go on Wyvern anymore.

which leads me to..

Originally Posted by Arilou

First we need to finish what we're doing and then we'll work on that and see if we can entice some of the older ones back to the game. As mentioned time and time again, there are those among them who are just waiting for the game to become more stable

[Kabroz]

Originally Posted by Arilou

entice some of the older ones back to the game.

Can I dual wield?

[Teshuvah]

Originally Posted by Kabroz

Can I dual wield?

Was that Rhialto you were talking to?
Dual Wielding, Mariliths and other things are his projects, and nothing you will see until he decides to do them.
And neither of them are stronger than what already exists in the game anyway.
They will be choices/options that will have negatives etc, too. So they won't make you stronger than is possible now in the game.
So if you are waiting for Rhialto to come back and do his projects you most likely going to be waiting a long time.

This, btw, is a prime example of why we no longer mention our future projects. People obsess and when nothing is done with the ideas this leaves them waiting for something that will likely never happen. And they act like wizards are somehow letting them down. When the truth is projects listed years ago in a text file are just random thoughts, something that gets mentioned but are always in flux, nothing ever concrete. This is especially true of things mentioned 8 years or more ago.
Things like dual wielding, marilith form, dwarven armor (Which they dont need, they have no armor limitations like other guilds) never had Rhialto working on them, or any other wizard, they were merely ideas, thoughts, running through his head at the time he wrote something many years ago.
So definitely should not be something expected.
Wait, Arilou has said all this before.. many times.....

[Demula]

I remeber when all that was in discussion. was along time ago....people dont take understand how much has happened..and in the big picture marilith and duel wielding sound insignificant. And I really believe the reason we lost so many people is because of downtime+game went from easy to hard mode with all the changes. They can say all they want..but it boils down to them being upset because they cant kill anything in the game anymore spamming minor healing....I am enjoying putting more thought into a battle now days. not just spamming a alias that flood heals.

Everyone got upset and quit after they changed enchanted gear to..Most of you might not know it..but back in the day my hydra wore +5 helms and was immune to almost any magic. Enchanted gear was bugged to make you godly strong...we thought it was ment to be like this..until they changed it...you can imagine how we took that.....

I was upset with healing too...quit for awhile...when i came back and saw all the changes I realized what they were doing...and it does seem more fun now.


Just my thoughts. Just enjoy the game or quit...complaining about how much harder it is doesnt help any..I think that what there aiming for....

[Salkand]

I would like to see more maps less RDs.

Now of course there are many maps that people don't use, blah blah blah. But after 25, most players will only RD (guilty) and that gets boring really fast. Yet if you want to get to lv 30+, it's RDs.

So. . . more high level maps. . .

salkand out!