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  #101  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovrlndnsea View Post
One thing that can be said for you is your skills at ignoring players who have a good, unanswerable point.
What point? From what I remember of your post it was one big bash fest that was filled with insults and lined with a childish attitude about everything. I have no interest in responding to such a post as; A) It is clear (to me) that you have no interest in establishing a rational dialogue, and B) You aren't someone I feel could potentially benefit from going over the facts. Those are the types of posts I respond to and I do so only because I want to - I feel it helps players when wizards openly respond to their comments whenever they are inclined to do so.

The thing, though, is that if you think I have nothing better to do than be goaded into responding to something like that just you can you continue to act that way in follow up posts, you are mistaken. But, if you feel that you have valid points that you want addressed, you are welcome to take a stab at editing your post so it comes across as if an adult wrote it. Just keep in mind that if you wish to continue to believe that no matter how you act, you deserve a response, I'm going to continue to not want to deal with you. Otherwise, I will give an edited version a second look and if it then is something I want to reply to, I will (I never had any issue over responding to certain "points," only with the way they were presented).

That said, I don't reply to everything to begin with - This is a forum, not a private message between the two of us. If you post something, even if it's directed toward me, anyone can reply (including players) and so sometimes I leave things alone because I want someone else to deal with it. This idea that I have to respond to everything (especially after all the replying I do - 14 posts in this thread alone) is absurd. As a player, in previous games, I used to listen to what the admins said, retain that knowledge, and then respond to other players when they made posts like the ones I've been replying to in this thread. Players in this game can do the same instead of making me repeat myself as much as I do and since I assume you can all think for yourselves, there are plenty of things players can respond to that a wizard hasn't previously talked about. But, apparently, I post too much since some of you have come to not only expect me to always do this, but demand I do. Maybe I should stop altogether if that's the case - I get that this is a small community so you tend to think of us wizards as more accessible than in larger games, but I have better things to do than maintain a presence on these forums...This is not just about the forums, though. There's a general attitude going around that players need to have their question answered by a wizard and when they can't get that, some start to act like they are entitled to being able to get a wizard to answer them. It's ridiculous.
  #102  
Old 03-31-2009, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arilou
You aren't someone I feel could potentially benefit from going over the facts. Those are the types of posts I respond to and I do so only because I want to
Meaning when you take the time to explain something to a player, you feel that the player in question is capable of something in the future. Something that as far as one can assume is undeterminable.

Now I say undeterminable because I doubt you respond to a players post thinking they'll be a Wizard one day, although I'm sure you have considered players as either qualified or unqualified before.

But some friendly advice, why not let said player in question know that this is why you are responding? It sounds childish I know, but a lot of wyverns participating players are Children, and a compliment from a Wizard can mean a lot to them.
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  #103  
Old 03-31-2009, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Valkon View Post
There aren't many players around as games like this aren't very popular. Because:

1) It isn't 3D with flashy graphics
2) Gameplay is a bit more complex than just mousing around
3) There are many bugs that make gameplay somewhat cumbersome. Specially for new players who are unaware of some of them.

We don't expect 2-300 players (if the server could even handle it)
I don't deny that there are many gamers that play only Halo. However, there are gamers who don't play only Halo, or maybe even don't like FPS games. In fact, I had never played an FPS until I played Counter-strike several years after it came out. I mainly played online games. Most of them were horrible, bug-ridden, and very ugly, yet somehow maintained a respectable population. But that was years ago, before WoW even, and I don't keep up with online games anymore. There is, however, one shining example that there is a niche audience for games that lack casual appeal or even grace.

This example is Dwarf Fortress. I became addicted to Dwarf Fortress recently. As far as I can tell, it is very popular and has a fanatical following. At the same time, it's built completely opposite of how a successful game should be. The presentation is truly spartan with worse graphics than Wyvern. That alone should turn off most gamers, but if it doesn't then shouldn't the huge learning curve? Amazingly, it continues to attract new players.

So maybe there is an audience that doesn't care about graphics and are not only willing to learn a complex game, but enjoy doing so. If this is the case, then perhaps the blame should be shifted away from Wyvern's superficial aspects.
  #104  
Old 03-31-2009, 03:02 PM
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and I am sure this Dwarf fortress also makes enough money for a little something that I doubt Rhialto is able to do right now.

Something we have all overlooked, something so huge that it could in fact effect the player-base of wyvern itself!

ADVERTISEMENT!

As far as I know, Wyvern is only advertised through sites that have heard of the game and put them in their game list. Meaning you either have to make a broad search of Online games, or Online games and Wyvern to find us.

Games like runescape and adventure quest and whatever else used advertisement to get noticed. Now pretty much everyone knows who they are and they were able to cut back on their ads, but I have never seen a real ad for wyvern.

Of course the game is in beta, so it would be useless to waste money on ads right now, which is why you may not any. But we still need to factor this in when thinking of the player-base.

Think of it this way, wyvern has roughly 100+ players who log on per month, and we accomplished this with no ads. If we did have advertisement . . .
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  #105  
Old 03-31-2009, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
If we did have advertisement . . .
Then we'd have even more people complaining.



But seriously, having more people in wyvern isn't automatically a "good" thing, at least at this stage in it's life.


And I would suggest that the reason dorf fortress has such a cult following is that as far as sandbox play goes, it is far superior to pretty much any other popular commercial game. That said, the UI is absolute trash so I don't bother with it myself. Do keep in mind, I played crossfire for quite a while, so it's not that I'm super picky. Though, I did stop playing once the DXclient no longer worked with my version of windows or the current server protocol.

Last edited by Logwad : 04-05-2009 at 09:11 PM.
  #106  
Old 03-31-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salkand View Post
and I am sure this Dwarf fortress also makes enough money for a little something that I doubt Rhialto is able to do right now.

Something we have all overlooked, something so huge that it could in fact effect the player-base of wyvern itself!

ADVERTISEMENT!
To my knowledge, Toady One the Great (the developer of Dwarf Fortress who is also known as Tarn Adams, who happens to make all of his money from donations) does not advertise. A good chunk of the Dwarf Fortress players seem to have came from forums like this where a Dwarf Fortress player made a topic to attract new players. Like I did on this forum at one time.

Also, if Dwarf Fortress' UI and graphics seem to stink, it is because it is in beta. They will be much better eventually.
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  #107  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post
Also, if Dwarf Fortress' UI and graphics seem to stink, it is because it is in beta. They will be much better eventually.
What is Wyvern in again?

Quote:
Wyvern is currently in beta test.
Although it is true that Today one the Great is a much more active developer.
  #108  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaecyn View Post
What is Wyvern in again?
I was not comparing Dwarf Fortress to Wyvern in that statement. I was merely stating that there will likely be future advancements in the UI and graphics of Dwarf Fortress.

But, if you really wish to hear my opinion on the state of Wyvern's development, I would say that it appears to be going slower than an entangled zombie snail.
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  #109  
Old 03-31-2009, 10:16 PM
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I have to admit, Hamel, when you said "eventually" I smiled and pondered on the magic of such a word.

Though I agree, comparing the development of dorf fortress to wyvern is very unfair. This was one of the things I was rather impressed with, though I didn't search around for any UI related things. While their are graphic packs that make it so I don't feel I'm blind, the actual user interface is inconsistent, unintuitive, jumbled, and it's not going to change for a very long time.

One thing I always loved about wyvern was it's straightforward interface. The ease and involvement of archery (which has been pretty much absent in any other game I've played) was what really hooked me.
  #110  
Old 04-05-2009, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
There's a general attitude going around that players need to have their question answered by a wizard and when they can't get that, some start to act like they are entitled to being able to get a wizard to answer them. It's ridiculous.
From what I still remember, I definitely remember and loath this attitude.

But to your grief, Tesh and Arilou, here's another question:

Why so defensive? You guys has done everything in your power (at least from your perspective)... Why bother defending a reputation and name that hardly needs defending?
oh and btw, salky doesn't annoy you to insanity, Tesh? How come??
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  #111  
Old 04-05-2009, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcow View Post
btw, salky doesn't annoy you to insanity, Tesh? How come??
Salkand has never cheated. The one and only thing that annoys me in Wyvern is cheaters. Oh, and people who have cheated repeatedly and think that their opinion continues to matter. There is that, too.

In reference to your other question, we aren't defending anything. Arilou stated a fact. Players are entirely too used to getting forum help/answers from Game Admins. This forum is not a 'wizard' forum, nor even an official wyvern forum. It's for players. If Wizards happen to answer, that's a nice plus, but is not what this forum is for. So when they don't get the answer they want from us, they think it is perfectly fine to act the fool. But Im sure Arilou will have a much more articulate answer, if he even bothers to reply.

Arilou was responding to a specific complaint from a specific player. There was nothing defensive about it.
  #112  
Old 04-06-2009, 02:01 AM
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Computer Mouse

My apologies for my inability to communicate, but I originally meant defensive in a general sense, not quite a direct reference to the quote. Merely an observation, an opinion.
Since you deny defensiveness, then please allow me rephrase, for I believe there is some merit in the question: why do you constantly lower yourself to our* level?

Yet, there is much that separates.


* to be taken at face value
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Last edited by Warcow : 04-06-2009 at 02:06 AM.
  #113  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:54 PM
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It is true that a lot of players, and most likely every player at one point or another in their wyvern career think that only a wizard can answer their question or that they are intitled to be able to talk to a wizard any time they like.

As far as I can determine there are only a few things that can be done about this situation.

Ignore it and allow them to keep their delusions.

Make a list of trustworthy players who have a good knowledge of the game so that new players can ask them question. Thus dooming said player to endless days anwering the question of newer players until they actually find something that does require a wizard's attention. Assuming of course said player doesn't flat out refuse to answer the question because he can't be bothered with a new players dirvle, forgetting that he probably asked the same question back in the day.

The Wizards can fade into obscurity so that the only times anyone knows they are on is when a Wizard runs a event or a test is in progress, they hand out punishment to a particular player, Arilou types shout instead of wiz-tell (Or whatever the command is). This might break people of depending on wizards, though the wizards may find it tedious.

Or Simply install a erase (player names) brain button and just use that so that people forget their pointless questions.

There may be other options, but I am too lazy to think of them at this moment.
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  #114  
Old 04-07-2009, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salkand View Post
Arilou types shout instead of wiz-tell (Or whatever the command is).
This is one of the reasons Salkand does not annoy me

While Arilou takes great pleasure is tormenting me about me bug reporting FO to Legolas the first April fools I was a wizard, *I* take great pleasure in tormenting Arilou for constantly miss-shouting/telling.
Which of course is always my fault *laugh*

*Smile* made my day
  #115  
Old 04-07-2009, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teshuvah
This is one of the reasons Salkand does not annoy me
Tesh thinks of me as one of her sons (assuming she has sons), I'm the one who doesn't call, doesn't visit and you only hear from me when I need money or food.
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  #116  
Old 04-21-2009, 04:32 AM
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Default I didn't bother to read through the whole topic, but...

Perhaps more people would stick around if there was some forum for the game, where you could go to chat or ask questions, without being treated like an idiot in return.

I can dream can't I?
  #117  
Old 05-12-2009, 05:54 AM
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Well, in all honesty, there was 1 reason I stopped playing Wyvern in the first place, and that is pretty obvious, and also clearly my fault >.>'

The people who played the game, obviously weren't playing cause it had top end graphics, and super fast connection, I believe most of the people who used to play, played because of the community Wyvern had to offer(I cannot speak for Wyvern today, because I haven't played in so long).

Wyvern is small enough for you to know many ppl, almost on a first name basis, even if it is only character names, so it makes you a part of something, which is what people need in this world. That is how I feel anyways.

But ya, at least 1 person has stated something of what I might have said for why the population is so low nowadays. But I'm off for tonight, work in teh morning! GN
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  #118  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:40 PM
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It becomes a thing where you are no longer a 'number' but a name, at least in your eyes and in the players eyes. One reason why some graduates choose small colleges instead of bigger ones, even if they are completly capable of getting into the bigger colleges and even if they offer better education. Which in the gaming world, would be choosing Wyvern over WoW, something all of us here have done for months or years now.

I said last night in game, because it hit me there, that you start to forget specific player names and etc. and start to remember player attitudes and personalities. The community is what drives this game and is what needs to be preserved, either in keeping the old (to an extent which is talked about in another form) to encouraging the young.
  #119  
Old 05-21-2009, 11:15 PM
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wat characters are you gaiz playing on, cause im like sorta starting to maybe play teh game again and I have no one to talk to >.>' (starting today ish) of course I made a character that everyone would have expected me to make /sigh
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  #120  
Old 05-22-2009, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfrogz View Post
you start to forget specific player names and etc. and start to remember player attitudes and personalities.
True. A lot of the time you can tell who someone's alt is based on the way they speak/play.
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