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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
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  #21  
Old 01-24-2009, 03:35 PM
Godhand Godhand is offline
 

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Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Ha, Monk Hydras have good resists? Their HP may be okay but their resists are just as bad as the next guilded person, maybe worse cause they don't get any resist armor.

Anyway there should be some type of amulets for elemental resist or armor for monks...
Monk hydras have very good resists. Massive hp plus 4-5 greater protection ammy is one of the best non spell resists you can get. With some resists scrolls your nearly invincible to spells.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post
I noticed that you forgot to mention some other differences between the two guilds.

Monks only lose -5 into the magical arts and elements unlike the cavemen who lose -10, and the monks guild doesn't lose any meditation unlike the caveman's guild which loses five. These are both beneficial to the magic using monks.

Also, the last time I checked raks using weapons as good as their claws is a bug. And I suspect it will be fixed one of these years.

Pointless to wear now, but perhaps not in the future when armor is fixed. Most of these balance issues it seems are coming from bugs that R already knows of.

Also, it turns out that wrist wraps actually give protection, not armor. Though not a lot of protection admittedly, there is still some. So they do accomplish something.
1. Monks lose -5 elements and arts while giving nothing, caveman on the other hand lose -10 but gives +100% hp bonus. Bottom line is caveman can still easily use full heal.

2. Raks using weapon as good as their claws is not a bug, its because their claws suck. Make a claw rak, axeman, blunt user, sword user, and magic whipper and compare the damage to raks. Raks are nothing special.

3. Pointless now, even more pointless in future. If armor gets fixed its even more pointless to be a monk. Think of all the other guilds with their heavy armor and monks with their cloth.

4. wrist wraps are the same bracers. +1 protection to all damage
  #22  
Old 01-24-2009, 04:10 PM
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Valkon Valkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post
2. Raks using weapon as good as their claws is not a bug, its because their claws suck. Make a claw rak, axeman, blunt user, sword user, and magic whipper and compare the damage to raks. Raks are nothing special.
Raks aren't supposed to be able to wield weapons. It's a bug that they can.
  #23  
Old 01-24-2009, 04:12 PM
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Hamel Hamel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post

1. Monks lose -5 elements and arts while giving nothing, caveman on the other hand lose -10 but gives +100% hp bonus. Bottom line is caveman can still easily use full heal.

2. Raks using weapon as good as their claws is not a bug, its because their claws suck. Make a claw rak, axeman, blunt user, sword user, and magic whipper and compare the damage to raks. Raks are nothing special.

3. Pointless now, even more pointless in future. If armor gets fixed its even more pointless to be a monk. Think of all the other guilds with their heavy armor and monks with their cloth.

4. wrist wraps are the same bracers. +1 protection to all damage
On your first point: I was not saying that because they only lose -5 into arts and elements, that they are better at full healing. Though they do spend less skill points as they do not receive a minus to incantation. But I was simply mentioning a difference in the guild that benefits the monks that you seemed to have forgotten to mention. For instance, monks could train five life and get 20% resist spells, but the cavemen could never hope of any such thing.

On your second point: It's not a bug? That is strange, because I could have sworn I heard a wizard saying it was. EDIT: Heh, beat me to it, Valkon.

On your third point: To begin with, I was not speaking to you on this matter and I was talking about some elemental armor that the Ji's give, not normal armor which is a different matter entirely. Also, monks can use cloth armor just as easily as any other spell using people can, so the only thing that spell using monks are left out of compared to spell using cavemen is certain leather armors such as fedoras, and platinum which has only been in the game for about a year. Also, since they can use cloth armor they still have access to +armor items.

On your four point: I did not say they gave very much. I was simply saying that they do in fact do something.
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  #24  
Old 01-24-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post
Monk hydras have very good resists. Massive hp plus 4-5 greater protection ammy is one of the best non spell resists you can get. With some resists scrolls your nearly invincible to spells.
I have never seen it proven that a gpro ammy actually helps against recoil, mostly it has just been accepted as for best non spell resists, I think e pro rings, omni resist and regular are way better than gpro, as for resist scrolls, like i said just as good as the next guy's
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2009, 12:22 AM
Godhand Godhand is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post
On your first point: I was not saying that because they only lose -5 into arts and elements, that they are better at full healing. Though they do spend less skill points as they do not receive a minus to incantation. But I was simply mentioning a difference in the guild that benefits the monks that you seemed to have forgotten to mention. For instance, monks could train five life and get 20% resist spells, but the cavemen could never hope of any such thing.

On your second point: It's not a bug? That is strange, because I could have sworn I heard a wizard saying it was. EDIT: Heh, beat me to it, Valkon.

On your third point: To begin with, I was not speaking to you on this matter and I was talking about some elemental armor that the Ji's give, not normal armor which is a different matter entirely. Also, monks can use cloth armor just as easily as any other spell using people can, so the only thing that spell using monks are left out of compared to spell using cavemen is certain leather armors such as fedoras, and platinum which has only been in the game for about a year. Also, since they can use cloth armor they still have access to +armor items.

On your four point: I did not say they gave very much. I was simply saying that they do in fact do something.
notice im talking mainly about rak monks

1. I didn't pointed that out cause it was not important. A rak monk has a lot more problems to worry about then saving a few skill points.

2. Even if it is a bug, it doesn't change the fact that rak claws suck, if they don't suck why would raks use weapons?

3. Ji's are worthless. They are inferior to dsms, and other guild armors in every way. If ac is fixed ji's might help keep you alive 1 second longer, but thats *if ac is fixed*

4. Yes, i know i was letting people know how much protection they give.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
I have never seen it proven that a gpro ammy actually helps against recoil, mostly it has just been accepted as for best non spell resists, I think e pro rings, omni resist and regular are way better than gpro, as for resist scrolls, like i said just as good as the next guy's
Greater protection protects from all types of damages. Recoil is a type of damage is it not? So how can you not see that it protects from recoil? are you blind?

Nagas hydras have natural ac acid resist,cut,stab,and smash. With 400+hp and 4-5 greater protection ammy, their resists are way better than average.
  #26  
Old 01-25-2009, 12:45 PM
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Mustard Mustard is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post
Greater protection protects from all types of damages. Recoil is a type of damage is it not? So how can you not see that it protects from recoil? are you blind?

Nagas hydras have natural ac acid resist,cut,stab,and smash. With 400+hp and 4-5 greater protection ammy, their resists are way better than average.
Have you ever taken a enlightenment potion without any armor and then with a gpro ammy, I want to know exactly what it prevents against.

People have taken efforts to see what epro rings omnirings and resist rings do, What exactly do gpro amulets/rings give % wise. I want to see that stuff, not just a bunch of people saying "it's great you should get 5 of them"

The Naga Hydra may have better melee but in the line of spells, they are slow and when the enemies are invisible and running, it's hard to follow. In the line of cone spells, nagas get 4x the hits because of their larger bodies.

Nagas hardly ever wear 4-5, or at least during my experience, 3 is the max, you need Eagle ammy, and Death pro almost always. Also there is sometimes a phoenix or lifesaving or free action amulets. Also many hydra players use great vitality rather than gpro, as far as i'm concerned, gpro is only for under lvl 25 who need dray resists, I have not seen any hard evidence that gpro amulets/rings do anything beyond that.
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  #27  
Old 01-25-2009, 01:22 PM
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Hamel Hamel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post
notice im talking mainly about rak monks

1. I didn't pointed that out cause it was not important. A rak monk has a lot more problems to worry about then saving a few skill points.

2. Even if it is a bug, it doesn't change the fact that rak claws suck, if they don't suck why would raks use weapons?

3. Ji's are worthless. They are inferior to dsms, and other guild armors in every way. If ac is fixed ji's might help keep you alive 1 second longer, but thats *if ac is fixed*
Saving a few skill points (15 was it?) can make your character much more powerful.

The claws may suck, but guess what. You're supposed to be stuck with em. Because raks, from what I can tell, are not supposed to be just another arrangement of HP, SP and skill points. And let us not forget that the raks get some awesome HP, SP and skill points. For instance the tiger raks get the most HP of any single tile creature!

I am sure the Ji's are quite similar to the jumpsuits and vests that the rogues get, and they sure help. And believe it or not, there are not actually that many guilds that give out guild only armor. There's only:
Rangers(maybe, and I bet their's suck), Archers(I know these one suck), Rogues(about the same as the Ji's from what I can tell), Mages(not very good either!) and Monks. Also, don't DSMs bungle? Last I checked most players use magic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Have you ever taken a enlightenment potion without any armor and then with a gpro ammy, I want to know exactly what it prevents against.

People have taken efforts to see what epro rings omnirings and resist rings do, What exactly do gpro amulets/rings give % wise. I want to see that stuff, not just a bunch of people saying "it's great you should get 5 of them"

A greater protection amulet gives >protection< which cannot be learned of through drinking an enlightenment potion. Not resists, which can be learned of through a enlightenment potion. What >protection< does, from what I can tell, is take away a amount of damage from ALL attacks that is it meant to protect against.

The reason I am so vague on the matter of >protection< is because the only way we can find out about it and the specifics of it, is by asking the wizards.
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Last edited by Hamel : 01-25-2009 at 01:26 PM.
  #28  
Old 01-25-2009, 05:54 PM
Godhand Godhand is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post
Saving a few skill points (15 was it?) can make your character much more powerful.

The claws may suck, but guess what. You're supposed to be stuck with em. Because raks, from what I can tell, are not supposed to be just another arrangement of HP, SP and skill points. And let us not forget that the raks get some awesome HP, SP and skill points. For instance the tiger raks get the most HP of any single tile creature!

I am sure the Ji's are quite similar to the jumpsuits and vests that the rogues get, and they sure help. And believe it or not, there are not actually that many guilds that give out guild only armor. There's only:
Rangers(maybe, and I bet their's suck), Archers(I know these one suck), Rogues(about the same as the Ji's from what I can tell), Mages(not very good either!) and Monks. Also, don't DSMs bungle? Last I checked most players use magic.






A greater protection amulet gives >protection< which cannot be learned of through drinking an enlightenment potion. Not resists, which can be learned of through a enlightenment potion. What >protection< does, from what I can tell, is take away a amount of damage from ALL attacks that is it meant to protect against.

The reason I am so vague on the matter of >protection< is because the only way we can find out about it and the specifics of it, is by asking the wizards.
At max, a rak monk is gonna save 10 skill points more than a caveman, that is if only they choose to use magic. If they don't use magic then they are not saving any skill points. What magic is a monk rak gonna use? mind magic? good luck with mind magic on a ghast or shog. Full heal with their 200hp and awful resists? thats not gonna get them very far. Training in life for resists?? thats -10 skill points down the drain. There are no benefits to being a rak monk, other then trying to top the most deaths list.

Raks are better off being guildless than in monks. -10 unarmed but you can cast all types of spells and wear all types of armor. Doesn't that say something about how bad the guild is? if a race can be guildless and still as effective as being in monks?

Rogues and rangers guild armor gives 28% to their particular element. Ji's give 0%. There is a big difference, not even close. You can bet they give more elemental ac than ji's too.
  #29  
Old 01-25-2009, 06:48 PM
Dhalia Dhalia is offline
 

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Actually Jis do give resists, just awful resists.
Ji of the Salamander - 15% fire resistance, look out.
Ji of the Yeti - 20% cold resist, uh-oh getting higher.
Ji of the Kirin - 30% shock resist, nice! Right? I mean, all monsters use Thunderstorm and not fire based attacks, right?
Ji of the Xorn - 75% petrify resist, no acid resist. Recoil + rak = bad day.

I don't really want to join in on this argument, but yea I agree, monk armor is garbage, 15% fire resist for salamander WEAK! A wyvern skin robe gives that, AND it lets you fly...
  #30  
Old 01-25-2009, 07:35 PM
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Hamel Hamel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhalia View Post
Actually Jis do give resists, just awful resists.
Ji of the Salamander - 15% fire resistance, look out.
Ji of the Yeti - 20% cold resist, uh-oh getting higher.
Ji of the Kirin - 30% shock resist, nice! Right? I mean, all monsters use Thunderstorm and not fire based attacks, right?
Ji of the Xorn - 75% petrify resist, no acid resist. Recoil + rak = bad day.

I don't really want to join in on this argument, but yea I agree, monk armor is garbage, 15% fire resist for salamander WEAK! A wyvern skin robe gives that, AND it lets you fly...
Those resists are better than nothing, let us not forget that Ji's do not bungle. Unlike DSMs and wyvern skin robes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godhand View Post
At max, a rak monk is gonna save 10 skill points more than a caveman, that is if only they choose to use magic. If they don't use magic then they are not saving any skill points. What magic is a monk rak gonna use? mind magic? good luck with mind magic on a ghast or shog. Full heal with their 200hp and awful resists? thats not gonna get them very far. Training in life for resists?? thats -10 skill points down the drain. There are no benefits to being a rak monk, other then trying to top the most deaths list.

Raks are better off being guildless than in monks. -10 unarmed but you can cast all types of spells and wear all types of armor. Doesn't that say something about how bad the guild is? if a race can be guildless and still as effective as being in monks?

Rogues and rangers guild armor gives 28% to their particular element. Ji's give 0%. There is a big difference, not even close. You can bet they give more elemental ac than ji's too.
Hahaha!

Ok, to start with, if your not full healing with 200 hp and lowly resists, what are you going to do? And that thing about raks being better off unguilded than in monks? Purely speculation.

Second, As Dhalia said, the Ji's do give resists, and as I am saying now, the rogue's jump-suits only give 20-25%(I forgot the precise amounts but their in that range) resists not 28%. And the caustic jumpsuit(acid-petrify)? doesn't give any acid resists only acid armor as Arilou said. I also doubt that any of the guild armor give elemental armor other than the caustic jumpsuit.

Third, you would save 15 skill points as a full healing monk rak over a full healing cave rak. Cavies with 10- incan, -5 meditation. vs Monks with no Loss's into either. So you can play raks with resists for less skill point than cavies is required to have for full healing.

Four: RAKS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE WEAPONS WELL! I cannot seem to get this into your thick skull!

And I for one believe that any raks using clubs or any other weapon with this bug in circulation, should be guilty of bug abuse. You are lucky that the wizards do not seem to have the same stance on this as I do.

That was my ending word on this matter to you Godhand, because you have, so far, consistently lied.
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Last edited by Hamel : 01-25-2009 at 07:40 PM.
  #31  
Old 01-25-2009, 08:24 PM
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Mustard Mustard is offline
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post
Rangers(maybe, and I bet their's suck), Archers(I know these one suck), Rogues(about the same as the Ji's from what I can tell), Mages(not very good either!) and Monks. Also, don't DSMs bungle? Last I checked most players use magic.
Ranger probably have the best guild armor, they also have elemental weapons, their armor gives the same amount of protection as DSMs without bungling because it's cloth. Archers have really nice bows and fireflies to compensate, archer's are meleers so they don't really need the same armor as meleers, mages same thing, mages can cast their own resist. Rogues get an HP bonus, they're probably worse off than monks but still, Paladins, Axemen, and cavemen all have huge HP bonuses and other bonuses that help them out,

So here is a list of what monks have...

10 unarmed
10 healing-not really worth it if you use full heal...might save you 1 clover in 6 hours...
10 mind-only those crazy mind mages might have use for this...
10 dodge-hey helps you save 1 piece of armor...oh wait you can't wear that one piece of armor MUWAHAHAHAHAHA....

-5 all arts but incantation
-5 all arts but mind....
Only cloth armor

Compared to other guilds,
No HP bonus
No MP bonus

Everytime I go on any of my characters, mages have around 5 all the time paladin cavemen axemen have around 3 rangers have 3 I have no idea about rogues but i'm guessing rogues archers and monks on average have 1 on at a time.

Here is an example of why raks and nagas are no longer in the monks guild...
With the prices of jaunties of agility at 600k an imp crown only at 375k and plat helms at around 675k if memory serves...

Guilded rak lvl 25
35 unarmed-10 from guild
15 strength-5 strength potion
10 lore
10 meditation
2 merchant
7 incantation
6 Find weakness-or spirit because you have no health bonus...

Cavie Rak lvl 25
30 unarmed-5 from guild
15 strength-potion
10 lore
5 meditation-(so trained 10 -5 from guild)less amount of heal but same amount of hp if you count the hp boost
2 merchant
5 incantation (so 15 trained -10 from guild)

(adv-more hp, better armor dis-less unarmed,more money into training)
I'd rather go into cavemans with a rak then monks...

Unguilded rak lvl 25
25 unarmed
15 strength-potion
10 lore
10 med
2 merchant
5 incantation
5 life-you can cast your own resists, and if you are like me you are lazy and don't want to search for resist scrolls...
2 find weakness? or fire or some other element to help you resists

Armor guilded
Jaunty cap of agi 10-600kish
Amulet of Dpro
Ji of ... or robe of agi 10-150kish
Cloak of agility 10
Rings of Petrify resist-unless you want to spend money on scrolls
Ring of free action
Girdle of Constitution
Wrist Wraps
NO BOOTS
...hmmm how do you fly???eagle ammy? spells? well you won't be doing Vesimas's RD for awhile

Armor Unguilded
Imp Crown-375k
Amulet of Great vitality-because you can use plat...
Wings of Fae-you can fly now too!
Plat Armor
Plat Bracers
Plat boots
Girdle of Constitution
Rings of Resist(any type)

If you need to see hydra let me know, but you get the hang of it... Armor is better, and resists are better without monks guild!
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Last edited by Mustard : 01-25-2009 at 08:28 PM.
  #32  
Old 01-25-2009, 09:00 PM
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Teshuvah Teshuvah is offline
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Ok this has turned into an argument topic, instead of a suggestion topic.
I think all the "Suggestion" that can be given has been. So Im locking it.
 


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