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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 03-05-2011, 04:15 AM
goonyton goonyton is offline
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
goonyton has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
Default Groups. Bug depending on how you look at it

How does the distance limit work with groups? I am guessing something along the lines of,

Monster dies
Who in group is <7 distance from monster
Give XP to them
Else None

That is not a problem for melee characters, not so great for mages. If I even see the nasty monster I figure I messed up. I am much happier with the monster off the map and using fireball, fire spray, or some other spell and kill it from a long ways off.

Consider these two examples and see if it is the way it should be.

Example 1 I work with another player we enter a map, he goes west I go east. I fireball and kill really a big nasty monster from 8 squares or more away. I get no XP because I am too far away, the other player gets no XP because he is even further off killing different monsters. Near as I can tell the XP from killing the monster is lost and no one gets it.

Example 2 I work with a melee player. He gets in close and keeps nasty monster away. Being a pixie of good sense I stay out of range of Dray and other nasty spells and help my friend with fireballs. Even if my fireball kills the monster I get no XP.

If I am seeing things right example 1 looks wrong anyway that I look at it. Example 2 looks like a form of pushing.

A few ideas to solve this.

A Increase the range to at least that of cone spells. I have never measured one, I am guessing around 12-15 squares. I would be happier with a range of 20.

B You have to damage monster to get a fraction of the XP and forget distance.

C The person who kills the monster always get XP no matter how far away they are. If there is another player who is close enough they can get a fraction of the XP as they do now.

Monster dies
Who in group other than killer is <7 distance from monster
If no one is <7 give all XP to the killer.
Else Split XP between close player(s) and killer(no matter the distance to the killer)

D If you damage the monster you get a fraction of the XP no matter the distance. If you are close you get XP even if you did not damage the monster.


My ideal solution is

Monster dies
Who in group damaged the monster or is <7 distance from monster
Split XP between them.
Else None



My thoughts on each
A a quick fix, but I doubt it is the right fix.
B Support players would not get much.
C Much better than what is happening now, but the close guy will still be getting more than he should.
D What I consider to be the right fix. Everyone involved gets part of the reward. Yet my friend who went west and is fighting other monsters does not get any of the XP and I get none of his.

Comments?
  #2  
Old 03-05-2011, 07:57 AM
Teshuvah's Avatar
Teshuvah Teshuvah is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Teshuvah has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonyton View Post
How does the distance limit work with groups? I am guessing something along the lines of,

Monster dies
Who in group is <7 distance from monster
Give XP to them
Else None

That is not a problem for melee characters, not so great for mages. If I even see the nasty monster I figure I messed up. I am much happier with the monster off the map and using fireball, fire spray, or some other spell and kill it from a long ways off.

Consider these two examples and see if it is the way it should be.

Example 1 I work with another player we enter a map, he goes west I go east. I fireball and kill really a big nasty monster from 8 squares or more away. I get no XP because I am too far away, the other player gets no XP because he is even further off killing different monsters. Near as I can tell the XP from killing the monster is lost and no one gets it.

Example 2 I work with a melee player. He gets in close and keeps nasty monster away. Being a pixie of good sense I stay out of range of Dray and other nasty spells and help my friend with fireballs. Even if my fireball kills the monster I get no XP.

If I am seeing things right example 1 looks wrong anyway that I look at it. Example 2 looks like a form of pushing.

A few ideas to solve this.

A Increase the range to at least that of cone spells. I have never measured one, I am guessing around 12-15 squares. I would be happier with a range of 20.

B You have to damage monster to get a fraction of the XP and forget distance.

C The person who kills the monster always get XP no matter how far away they are. If there is another player who is close enough they can get a fraction of the XP as they do now.

Monster dies
Who in group other than killer is <7 distance from monster
If no one is <7 give all XP to the killer.
Else Split XP between close player(s) and killer(no matter the distance to the killer)

D If you damage the monster you get a fraction of the XP no matter the distance. If you are close you get XP even if you did not damage the monster.


My ideal solution is

Monster dies
Who in group damaged the monster or is <7 distance from monster
Split XP between them.
Else None



My thoughts on each
A a quick fix, but I doubt it is the right fix.
B Support players would not get much.
C Much better than what is happening now, but the close guy will still be getting more than he should.
D What I consider to be the right fix. Everyone involved gets part of the reward. Yet my friend who went west and is fighting other monsters does not get any of the XP and I get none of his.

Comments?
It's not a bug at all, but just wanted to add that 7 squares is close to half your screen or so. And your "I go west he goes east" goes against the games real definition of a group. Groups stay together and work together.
So go with D, which is just called training together and is really what you are talking about and all you have to do is ungroup and you get your own xp and then there arent any problems.
Every member of the group, including support members are and should be in danger to some degree (hence the 7 spaces), so the meleers must protect the support characters and the support characters are nearby for heals/etc.
So yeah if Xp is an issue just go with D.
  #3  
Old 03-05-2011, 11:37 AM
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Arilou Arilou is offline
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Yeah, this is not remotely a bug, this is how the system was designed. So you're suggesting a change, not reporting a mistake. Hence I moved your thread.

As for your perception of how it works...

Quote:
Example 1 I work with another player we enter a map, he goes west I go east. I fireball and kill really a big nasty monster from 8 squares or more away. I get no XP because I am too far away, the other player gets no XP because he is even further off killing different monsters. Near as I can tell the XP from killing the monster is lost and no one gets it.
If two people are grouped and one person is out of range when the second person kills the monster, the person who killed the monster gets all of the xp. So if you go east and someone else goes west you will be training the same as you did if you were not in a group. You get your xp, your teammate gets his xp and then you share xp again when you two meet up.

Quote:
Example 2 I work with a melee player. He gets in close and keeps nasty monster away. Being a pixie of good sense I stay out of range of Dray and other nasty spells and help my friend with fireballs. Even if my fireball kills the monster I get no XP.
If you're just out of range, casting a fireball at the same monster someone else is meleeing, then the meleer will get all of the xp and you will get none. The solution to this is very simple - Get in range. I understand that you're used to casting spells at monsters that are not on your screen, but grouping presents a totally different scenario and you need to adjust to different tactics - If you're working with a good meleer, then the meleer will be preventing the monsters from reaching you, so you will have a 7 square buffer between you and them. Therefore, you can safely get closer without too much worry that a monster will run up and melee you to death. Of course, there will be spells that shoot past the meleer, toward you, but at 7 squares you have plenty of time to dodge to the side to avoid things like death ray. The problem is that you're simply not used to having to do that because monsters currently don't cast spells if they're not on the same screen as you, but don't assume that will last forever and don't be a lazy grouper because of it. Oh and as for fireball - Don't use it as much in a group and if you do use it, use it a smart manner so it doesn't force you to run out of the grouping range to prevent it from exploding in your face (it can be done).

Quote:
A Increase the range to at least that of cone spells. I have never measured one, I am guessing around 12-15 squares. I would be happier with a range of 20.
Absolutely not. We don't need support classes getting xp for sitting in some corner, completely out of danger.

Quote:
B You have to damage monster to get a fraction of the XP and forget distance.
As you said yourself in your follow up thoughts - http://cabochon.com/player/groups#Alternat

Quote:
C The person who kills the monster always get XP no matter how far away they are. If there is another player who is close enough they can get a fraction of the XP as they do now.

Monster dies
Who in group other than killer is <7 distance from monster
If no one is <7 give all XP to the killer.
Else Split XP between close player(s) and killer(no matter the distance to the killer)


This is exactly how it works right now. Problem solved.


Edit: Btw, I specifically tested this to make sure it still worked this way, since you also bug reported it, and it worked fine for me. So I'm not sure what it is you did or think you did. Perhaps you were trying to kill monsters in another map by going through a teleporter, casting a fireball, and then going back through a teleporter? I recommend you test it further and ask your teammate if they are getting xp or not, which it doesn't sound like you did.

Quote:
D If you damage the monster you get a fraction of the XP no matter the distance. If you are close you get XP even if you did not damage the monster.
So someone can come along, hit a 10,000 xp boss monster for 1 hp of damage and then run and hide in a corner? No.
  #4  
Old 03-06-2011, 04:50 AM
goonyton goonyton is offline
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
goonyton has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
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I will test it more.

What I saw was killing several monsters of the same kind on the same map as me, while grouped and not getting xp for them, getting unhappy, ungrouping and killing more of the same kind of monster and getting XP for them.

I did not have a partner tonight, I went back and found some of the same monsters that did not give XP and I think I figured out why they did not and bug reported them.

I like your change with the stairs, makes life harder having to be there, but makes sense.
  #5  
Old 03-06-2011, 09:04 AM
Teshuvah's Avatar
Teshuvah Teshuvah is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Teshuvah has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonyton View Post
I will test it more.

What I saw was killing several monsters of the same kind on the same map as me, while grouped and not getting xp for them, getting unhappy, ungrouping and killing more of the same kind of monster and getting XP for them.

I did not have a partner tonight, I went back and found some of the same monsters that did not give XP and I think I figured out why they did not and bug reported them.

I like your change with the stairs, makes life harder having to be there, but makes sense.
I just read your bug report. It is not related to grouping, nor is it a bug.
You don't get XP for monster summons, you will get xp if the same monster is killed that is not a summon.
  #6  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:20 AM
goonyton goonyton is offline
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
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Has it been that way long? I thought I remember killing ghasts that ADs summoned and gettting XP for it(back before most of the changes).
  #7  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:48 AM
Teshuvah's Avatar
Teshuvah Teshuvah is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Teshuvah has just set foot in the Tutorial Tower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonyton View Post
Has it been that way long? I thought I remember killing ghasts that ADs summoned and gettting XP for it(back before most of the changes).
Yeah it is a recent change, defining recent as in the last 2 years since most the changes/fixes. You can't farm summons for XP anymore.
  #8  
Old 03-08-2011, 08:29 AM
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Irlazy Irlazy is offline
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Location: Texas
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Yeah it made me change my name from irlazysummonfarmer to irsadpally... Now those ghasts just have to find ways to kill themselves...
  #9  
Old 03-08-2011, 08:43 AM
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kiez kiez is offline
 

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I am just glad to know that it wasn't our grouping that made things hard on you...
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:13 AM
goonyton goonyton is offline
 

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And it is good to know I am not going completely, just mostly, nuts.
 


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