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  #41  
Old 02-16-2009, 10:48 AM
Ellandra Ellandra is offline
 

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Originally Posted by rilian View Post
You can wear two shields and wield no weapon silly :P
But what good is that? -.-
  #42  
Old 02-16-2009, 11:25 AM
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For those very elite few with two shields of power it is very good, for other mages, plat shield and shield of power, or two plats, if you dont melee then might as well get +10 more agil or more magical bonuses.
  #43  
Old 02-19-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rilian View Post
For those very elite few with two shields of power it is very good, for other mages, plat shield and shield of power, or two plats, if you dont melee then might as well get +10 more agil or more magical bonuses.
There is also the new Casino shield that must be taken under consideration
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  #44  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:28 PM
Shaieran Shaieran is offline
 

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Ah, shields. It's the choice between dual-shields or +3 Skill Points (Woodland Bow). I maximize damage, so I pick the bow, but at a heavy cost. Still, need as many skill points as possible.
  #45  
Old 05-04-2009, 05:28 AM
Bitsey Bitsey is offline
 
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to pick up the original topic of this thread...

who's the highest lvl archer active in the game? I don't think there's anyone above 22. You just can't get there....RD is out of the question - you're just asking to die before you get 20 floors down. Even with plat bolts, 38 ranged and 20 FW it still takes ~100 bolts to kill a Reaper - that's a lot of time standing around waiting for them to kill you. It's not just reapers - it takes so long to kill anything really substantial that death is just sure to happen. If you skip RDs you're left with Hentenko, Bietdag, various quest areas...there's just not enough XP per death to make it up very high.

I don't want to pull an exile and restart as something else weekly, but archery is starting to feel like it's hit the limit.....an example otherwise would be very welcome.



-bitsey
  #46  
Old 05-04-2009, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
to pick up the original topic of this thread...

who's the highest lvl archer active in the game? I don't think there's anyone above 22. You just can't get there....RD is out of the question - you're just asking to die before you get 20 floors down. Even with plat bolts, 38 ranged and 20 FW it still takes ~100 bolts to kill a Reaper - that's a lot of time standing around waiting for them to kill you. It's not just reapers - it takes so long to kill anything really substantial that death is just sure to happen. If you skip RDs you're left with Hentenko, Bietdag, various quest areas...there's just not enough XP per death to make it up very high.

I don't want to pull an exile and restart as something else weekly, but archery is starting to feel like it's hit the limit.....an example otherwise would be very welcome.



-bitsey
I am not exactly active, but I do play occasionally. I spend more time with alts, but that is even limited at the moment. But to answer your concerns...22 is a very tough level for an archer. However, every area that I used to get from 22 to 25 is still around...mostly quest areas, so unless quests have been removed without being announced, they are just as valuable as always. Post 25, I spent most of my time in RD's. If anything, plat bolts made it easier for archers to level. I was always an archer, unlike some others who started out with different skill sets.

Suggestions: Be sure your ranged is maxed to your level. FW doesn't have to be maxed, but the more the better. Use potions of invisibility (or cloak/ring), as it helps even with the higher level monsters that see invisible. Developing a set of hot key aliases to fire multiple arrows will help some of the tedium. Archer is not the easiest to play, but it does require more work to get somewhere. Having a backup weapon or using 2 shields will help in those situations where you are too close to monsters. I use a sword mostly, and have aliases to switch to 2 shields when dealing with recoil monsters (shogs). Lastly, while I did most of my leveling solo, finding a meleer to RD with can be very helpful. They can deal with the monsters up close, while you deal with them from a distance. You might also consider using arrows of returning instead of plat bolts, then you don't have to spend as much time collecting your bolts (or run out of ammo). If you use returnings, be aware that mages and spell casting monsters will destroy them (even in flight).

If you want something easy to play, smashing stonies are easy, as are halfling stinkies.
  #47  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:35 PM
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What does grouping provide the meleer thought? He doesn't need someone to shoot from a distance, at least not at higher levels.

Mages can give resist, so they are slightly useful in a group, but unless there are monsters that only archers can kill (Or mages) then meleers will not really have a "reason" or "need" to group with anyone else except other meleers.
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  #48  
Old 05-04-2009, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Salkand View Post
What does grouping provide the meleer thought? He doesn't need someone to shoot from a distance, at least not at higher levels.

Mages can give resist, so they are slightly useful in a group, but unless there are monsters that only archers can kill (Or mages) then meleers will not really have a "reason" or "need" to group with anyone else except other meleers.
Not true, well at least not for us skill healing dwarven meleers, I have a hard time killing several monsters that are found deep in RDs (namely monopods, arch dracos, demon lords, riagors and beholders). Which means I have to RD with either archers or mages. I prefer grouping with mages because they almost always have resists, but I have grouped with archers many times in the past. And I would probably group with more if they gave good resists. >.>

I suspect Wyvern will be seeing at least a little bit more skill healing meleers with the full healing nerfs coming up
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  #49  
Old 05-04-2009, 07:03 PM
Bitsey Bitsey is offline
 
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Question

I appreciate the words of encouragement....


Realistically, RDs are just out of the question. Especially when you consider expensive, hard to get things like plat bolts - when you die, you can't go back and get them.

Seems to me there are a few issues to resolve - perhaps someone has some suggestions:

1) things just don't die fast enough. If they died faster, I'd need fewer resists. I've already max'd ranged and FW so all that's left is rings of perfect archer and leveling. I wonder if there's much real difference between 38 Ranged and say, 45, though...

2) autograb doesn't pick up cursed bolts/arrows. This is just a PAIN. See #1, above, for why things live long enough to curse me regularly. Is there a work around? I pledge my eternal gratitude to the wiz that fixes this....

3) need for a better resist strategy. Scrolls are too difficult to find to have this as your only source. I need essentially constant resisting and you just can't keep enough around. This leaves two choices:
a) cast spells on yourself. archers guild penalty makes this more challenging but with a few more skill points it could be overcome.
b) totally item based (with rare scrolls to help when fighting the big bad). How would you do this? Red DMS & shield (the other being +10agi skull), rings of cold & petri, dpro ammy? chiller bracelet (if you can find one)? What's left?

The crux of the problem is that (I'm sure, by design) there are no items that have more than one of the following propetries (elemental resists, non-bungling, +agi) that are wearable by archers. The few that exist are guild-specific for other guilds. Anyone got a counter example?

Perhaps the problem is being an elf (ghasp!). Not enough skill pts -> difficult to overcome the guild magic issue, not enough HP -> need for constant resists and frequent deaths. The extra ranged bonus doesn't seem to make up for this as it doesn't translate into killing that much faster...


-bitsey
  #50  
Old 05-04-2009, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
The crux of the problem is that (I'm sure, by design) there are no items that have more than one of the following propetries (elemental resists, non-bungling, +agi) that are wearable by archers. The few that exist are guild-specific for other guilds. Anyone got a counter example?
Can't archers wear platinum or agility+10 cloth armor? That's non-bungling and agility+. I don't think there is any armor in the entire game with elemental resists and a decent amount of agility+.
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  #51  
Old 05-04-2009, 09:15 PM
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I currently have a wood elf I am making an archer (as soon as I do guild quest ), and for killing elves and dragons an invisibility cloak and mana shield suffice. I dodge around the walls and frequently fire arrows when I can't see my target. However, when I have to do RD's with no dodging around walls I am not sure what I will do.
  #52  
Old 05-05-2009, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
Realistically, RDs are just out of the question. Especially when you consider expensive, hard to get things like plat bolts - when you die, you can't go back and get them.
I did most of my leveling prior to platinum bolts. While they are nice for dealing with reapers, they are expensive to loose (Ive lost 5). This is why returning arrows are handy, if you die, you don't loose all your arrows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
1) things just don't die fast enough.
Archer is definately not about being fast. If you want fast, play a different type. Archers do tend to be rich since they have few expenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
2) autograb doesn't pick up cursed bolts/arrows. This is just a PAIN. See #1, above, for why things live long enough to curse me regularly. Is there a work around? I pledge my eternal gratitude to the wiz that fixes this....
Me too! If you turn on autograb all, it will pick up cursed arrows/bolts. You can then use autobag "drop item" to eliminate those things you don't really want to pick up (orcish chainmail).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
3) need for a better resist strategy. Scrolls are too difficult to find to have this as your only source. I need essentially constant resisting and you just can't keep enough around.
I have 0 lore, so I spend a fair amount of time collecting scrolls. In the quest areas that I visited, you either needed only a subset of resists (solvable by dsm and rings) or none at all. This still leaves mana shield and invisibility pots. How one makes a casting archer is beyond me (yes, I tried it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
Perhaps the problem is being an elf (ghasp!).
When I tested ranged going from like 40 to 41 (maybe 30 to 31), I did about 1% more damage. So while it is important to wring every point out of ranged, it's not important enough to use valuable ring slots for extra ranged skills. Human archers have the advantage of weight carrying capacity and 4 skills per level. Halflings have the advantage of natural invisibility (invaluable to an archer even at high levels) and 4 skills per level. If I can do it as a High Elf, then anyone can do it...just dont expect it to be mr speedy moving up the high score list.

About grouping with a meleer: As someone pointed out, some meleers have issues with some of the monsters that archers don't have problems with. Otherwise, grouping is just fun. Resists are way over rated. My resist mage is a slower RD'er than my archer.
  #53  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:24 PM
Bitsey Bitsey is offline
 
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Bow and arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddul View Post
I did most of my leveling prior to platinum bolts. While they are nice for dealing with reapers, they are expensive to loose (Ive lost 5).
I lost 60 I'd been firing into a reaper when I died while in an RD. They're too expensive for that - I'll stick to regular bolts. Is there a plat xbow? Does it have similar effects (damage type modifier)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by oddul View Post
If you turn on autograb all, it will pick up cursed arrows/bolts. You can then use autobag "drop item" to eliminate those things you don't really want to pick up (orcish chainmail).
good suggestion - thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oddul View Post
I have 0 lore, so I spend a fair amount of time collecting scrolls. In the quest areas that I visited, you either needed only a subset of resists (solvable by dsm and rings) or none at all. This still leaves mana shield and invisibility pots.
mana shield and invis pots (and free action) are consistently findable many at a time so that's no problem. The scrolls aren't (that I know of) and they all look the same so you have to walk over every scroll in the room...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddul View Post
How one makes a casting archer is beyond me (yes, I tried it).
There don't seem to be enough skill points to go around (for an elf, at least). fire/cold resist would only require 1 point for lore which might work. Without either life magic skill or items, though, it won't last long. The problem with getting life magic via items is I have to take them off to actually fight (e.g. resisty things go in those spots). Once you're cursed that's out the window.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddul View Post
When I tested ranged going from like 40 to 41 (maybe 30 to 31), I did about 1% more damage.
excellent to know, thank you. I may find a buddy and try this myself, but this suggests it's not worth spending ring slots on ranged skill.


I'm poking around with a halfling archer - it seems it will be much easier (though honestly, I just like being an elf better). Natural invis saves me 500gp per login, and with the extra skill pt/level there's plenty to go around for casting spells. Halflings are overpowered, I suspect...

Thanks for the help.


-bitsey
  #54  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:24 PM
Burba Burba is offline
 

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I don't have any experience with archers, so I'm just BSing, but if I were to play an archer I'd definitely use teleport. My experience has been that many maps are cramped with swarming monsters. Not being able to teleport out of a tight place could easily be deadly. On the other hand, teleport doesn't work everywhere and you can always choose maps that are better suited for ranged combat. I'd combine teleport with the heal spell and the heal spell with mana shield pots. This will hurt your resists, though, since you won't be able to use any DSM. Casting your own resists may be viable, but you'd have to be a halfling and it would take a lot of skill points. Scrolls are good in certain circumstances, but constantly using them is a bad idea. Maybe throwing on a DSM and praying you don't bungle ten times in a row (it's happened to me before with a single bungling item) is your best option, at least for some areas.
Here's a quick halfling archer skillset that probably won't work:
25 ranged
15 incantation
5 enchantment
10 lore
10 life
5 fire
20 meditation
10 strength

Before I'd play an archer, though, I'd probably be a halfling in a melee guild with ranged skill trained. As Hamel said, there are circumstances where being able to shoot things from a distance would come in handy when you're a fragile meleer. Ranged damage would suffer from the already poor damage that a straight archer does, but it's definitely a better option than dying and possibly a better option than trying to lure the monster so you can get by it.
Here's a halfling paladin skillset that could work:
25 swords
25 ranged
12 healing
20 meditation
8 strength
8 find weakness
2 merchant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
mana shield and invis pots (and free action) are consistently findable many at a time so that's no problem. The scrolls aren't (that I know of) and they all look the same so you have to walk over every scroll in the room...
http://cabochon.com/player/commands#list
It's a very handy command.
  #55  
Old 05-06-2009, 12:29 PM
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The first build needs FW. FW is a must for archers. Strength can be done with pots or spells, but there is no replacement for FW.

There is a plat xbow. I have one, but don't use it as at my level I didn't see any difference between using it and not.
  #56  
Old 05-06-2009, 04:14 PM
Bitsey Bitsey is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddul View Post
There is a plat xbow. I have one, but don't use it as at my level I didn't see any difference between using it and not.
does it have the same effect as plat bolts (causes cut damage?)
  #57  
Old 05-06-2009, 08:31 PM
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Halloween Halloween is offline
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I'm a healing skill archer, healing is equal to my level.

As to reapers, just grab a gold bow and get a quiver with 200-250 lightning arrows. Not too hard.

Also, RDs are nothing. You can always fire from a distance and around the doors and corners. What you have to do is just stay out of their sight so they don't move towards you. Works on everything I know of, reapers, ghasts, ADs, it doesn't matter.

As a matter of fact, I think archers are the easiest type of character I've ever played. Of course, maybe that's just a fluke.
  #58  
Old 05-14-2009, 03:09 PM
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Thanks for the input.

I've made a few changes and it has improved my results, somewhat.

1) swapped ring of cold resistance for petri resistance. Lesson - first prevent the insta death.
2) untrained lore down to 1, put them in healing. Lesson - healing is your friend. If you had enough of it you don't care so much about resists. I still don't have enough here - I'll have to wait to level, I expect.
3) playing with electric arrows. nice. they have the extra bonus of leaving a well lit area. They're a tad pricy, but nothing like the plat bolts and they're more available.
4) swapped wyvern skin robe for red dsm. much better fire resist, though I NEED to figure out a way to fly. Now getting stuck in bear traps/pits is a common source of death.

I've done a lot of experimentation in MMA on fire resists. DB kills me more than anything else. I don't get suggestions I've read about 25% fire resist being enough. With +5RedDSM and a mithril ring of fire resist (60% fire resist, I believe), I still get things like this:

dragon breath burned you badly.
dragon breath scorched you horribly.
dragon breath engulfed you in burning flame.
dragon breath scorched you horribly.
dragon breath burned you badly.
dragon breath burned you badly.
dragon breath engulfed you in burning flame.
dragon breath engulfed you in burning flame.


you have died.

This is enough to chew through 110 hp and 200 mana shielded sp faster than I can possibly run or heal. If I add even my weak resist spell, it's fine. How are other people living through this? There are a fair number of non-self resisters running around...do you all spend 1/2 your time looking for scrolls?

Thanks again....


-bitsey
  #59  
Old 05-14-2009, 03:47 PM
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Porti holes are a 1x1 character's best friend, if you think you don't have enough time to run, pop into the hole and wait, with luck the monster you were fighting has wandered off, it not, you had time to heal at least.
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  #60  
Old 05-14-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsey View Post
Thanks for the input.

I've made a few changes and it has improved my results, somewhat.

1) swapped ring of cold resistance for petri resistance. Lesson - first prevent the insta death.
2) untrained lore down to 1, put them in healing. Lesson - healing is your friend. If you had enough of it you don't care so much about resists. I still don't have enough here - I'll have to wait to level, I expect.
3) playing with electric arrows. nice. they have the extra bonus of leaving a well lit area. They're a tad pricy, but nothing like the plat bolts and they're more available.
4) swapped wyvern skin robe for red dsm. much better fire resist, though I NEED to figure out a way to fly. Now getting stuck in bear traps/pits is a common source of death.

I've done a lot of experimentation in MMA on fire resists. DB kills me more than anything else. I don't get suggestions I've read about 25% fire resist being enough. With +5RedDSM and a mithril ring of fire resist (60% fire resist, I believe), I still get things like this:

dragon breath burned you badly.
dragon breath scorched you horribly.
dragon breath engulfed you in burning flame.
dragon breath scorched you horribly.
dragon breath burned you badly.
dragon breath burned you badly.
dragon breath engulfed you in burning flame.
dragon breath engulfed you in burning flame.


you have died.

This is enough to chew through 110 hp and 200 mana shielded sp faster than I can possibly run or heal. If I add even my weak resist spell, it's fine. How are other people living through this? There are a fair number of non-self resisters running around...do you all spend 1/2 your time looking for scrolls?

Thanks again....


-bitsey
Dragon breath is a cone spell...
The best way to stay out of it?
Get up to the monster head fast and then stay out of the 1 square that is DB.

As an archer....stay far enough away and invis enough (which helps with a few more squares even with high level monsters) that you see it coming and can move out of it before it hits you.
This also gets better as you level and have more hp.
 


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