Getting new players to stick around.

[goonyton]

I few comments on my starting and random idea in no particular order.


When I first stated I did not find NV for a while, instead I ended up going west(I forget the name of the town) which was not very new player friendly.

The Tower was a bit teadious but had all the info I needed to play and I went back a few times to redo some parts of it at which time it was a pain to leave when I was just visiting to check a single room, so I did not go back as often as I might otherwise have.

I had no clue about the various spells and which ones were good and which were not as useful. Thankfully Pael got me somewhat straightened out on my spells by the time I made it to level 10.

As for mentors I am all for it* A big thanks to Fred and Pael*, all a person has to do is message me in-game as long as they at least seem to have an IQ, I will help them all I can and have several times gone to NV with various spellbooks offered for MIN and more than once have gone and showed people how to find NV*preventing my mistake* and good places to train at low levels. I know I am not the only one who has done such things so we do exist, just the new players need ways to find us.

One thing that helped me a whole lot was pael showing me around, I do not think we grouped but he did show me some good places to go train and to get loot that were better suited to mages. If there was an easier way for a higher level player to show younger players where to train other than pointing, I think you would find me playing tour guild once in a while as pael did for me.*grouping with no EXP for the higher level player maybe and his share of EXP is lost, that idea about crystal balls to view lower level players might work. I had to stop packing mine though as the weight was getting to be a problem*

Teachers guild, I considered joining it and decided not to as the other high level players tend to give people who are in the guild a hard time about it. Instead I offer help to those who ask for it with the help command.

Ingame there are lists of those who have died, top players ect. can such a list be made of the teachers and placed around NV, davos and the other town in the NV area, which would show the various teachers who are logged in?

For whatever it is worth the players late at night seem to be friendlier to new players than those during the day.

Two or three days ago I had a new player(level 5-8 or so) who out of the blue started talking with me and was complaining about the interface and client ect. and asking for my oppion. I did not know what to make of it*I wizard in hiding maybe*. While I do not think there is anything that can be done to help those players it might be worth a try as he made it that far just need to convince him that there are better ways to do thing and that the various things he considered problems are not. Somewhere it might be worth while to try and talk new players into not messing with the buttons at the top and just type it all.

Another thing that might help is something that helps new players make simple alias. I can make such a thing for a website and intend to do so, but most new players will never find anything that I do. If there was a way to make such a thing ingame it would likely get used and might help those who do not understand/like the interface and might help them to stay long enough to learn and like wyvern.

I really like some of the random stuff that the town crier is talking about now days. I think such things should help get people to explore new areas(I know I have because of it) which is needed to make wyvern fun. He might want to shout such things out more often, as long as he has enough stuff to say to keep it fresh.

I am sure other I have other thoughts on the subject, yet none come to mind at the moment.

[Deaf]

Ah goonyton makes a lot of sense, but as for me when i think of sticking.. GLUE comes to mind.

[bullsaxe]

Originally Posted by Teshuvah

I asked Elec to start this thread because this is something I am very interested in.
The tutorial probably needs a revamp, so ideas of things to put in the tutorial are good.
Ideas like vouchers are good. But here are the things you must think of when you suggest that.
1: how do they get them?
2: how is it verified that you helped?
3: minimal wizard intervention other than maps/additions, this is about keeping new players not getting wizards more involved with new players.
So as you suggest things, think of these carefully.

Players stand around now and don't help.
Although in all fairness I saw a level 33 go to NV and help a level 4 today.
That is something Wizards just can't do. We can't show them areas, etc sell them items to help etc.

So let the ideas roll and yes do not just start doing the "its not that hard" or start "game bashing" without valid suggestions to improve it or it will just get nuked.

I belive that for the "How do they get them" a code should be worked in, something along the lines of 2 variables, Variable 1, the "Mentor's pupil's name" and variable 2 the level of the "Pupil" haveing some experince in codeing I can help you guys in working out the kinks in your system, and haveing created my own game(its on youtube, look for a channel called ICUTUUU) I think i would be of some use.

[Bullfrogz]

I have to think back five plus years, but just now noticing that quote from Teshuvah, I'll say what kept me around in the game.
I know the wizards want to big attractions in certain towns seperate so we don't only have to go to one town to get everything we need, and Its most likely nothing will change, but what kept me around in the beginning was coming out of the tuorial, walking into the auction house just out of curiosity and seeing all these players with custom pics, that you have no idea how they got, and everyone having a small, light, and funny conversation. You immediatly want to be a part of that group or be like them, so you start asking questions about the game, and in the process (Looking back to the other posts about high levels just needing to be nicer to keep players around) you make friends in the process.

So instead of movng the auction hall again, we need a way to get new players involved with the community at the beginning. Because, even if the player is more competitive than a social player, it works the same way by letting that player see high levels right form the start and pushing them to become better.

Now there are multiple ways to do ths, so other input would work. What I was thinking was some type of advertisement of Minath, or other social friendly towns like backrose, and whats important in them. Like a Billboard somewhere on the way out of New Verden and near the exit to the World Map, a billboard that adversises the Player Run Auction Hall, and when viewed, it informs the player that this is a main attraction for marketing, and for socializing.

There are other ways to do this, besides the very simple idea I listed, but the point is what keeps most people around in this game when I ask, is the tight community, so it is only reasonable to keep new players around would be to get them involved in that social network right away. The idea I listed is very little wizard work required, simply putting in advertisements to inform the new player that there are other players out there besides you all alone in New Verden with no one else, except the occasional level 2 Halfing running around.

[Dragif]

I agree, when you start the game out... you are totally alone it feels. You read the shouts, knowing there are other players but alas they are no where near you. The low lvls feel alone.....

[Arilou]

Originally Posted by Dragif

I agree, when you start the game out... you are totally alone it feels. You read the shouts, knowing there are other players but alas they are no where near you. The low lvls feel alone.....

That's a result of the current server performance issues - When the server is able to handle 60-100 players, there are quite a few players running around the starting towns. New Verden, especially - You'd see other low level players running between the structures there constantly.

[Justice]

Just be friendly by saying hi, you don't have to be buddies with everyone. How do you know anyone if you don't talk to them first.

[Shootout]

I'm sure everyone remembers their first trip through Wyvern's good ol' tutorial tower (TT). It teaches the basic principles of the game, but still leaves some players at a loss. These are my ideas:

1. Make TT a multi-player map.
Once people are thrust from the warm confines of TT into the world, they see these strange characters running around. Often times I've seen people shout out "Hey, dwarf/giant/elf, come back here!" I believe that if players were exposed to others right from the get-go it would help intergrate them as well as make some friends.

2. Future Planning (Guild Info)
I believe the guild information should be provided to players before they get to hacking and slashing kobolds. I don’t believe the full bonuses and negatives should be listed but the paladins guild sign would be something like this "The paladins are a holy order of knights that vanquish their foes with swords!" This will help players gear their development towards something more successful in the Wyvern world, which leads me to my next point.

3. Low level supply store.
Upon the completion of the tutorial, the player should be teleported into a low level friendly store. In here, I believe there should be a basic sword, axe, club, and bow and arrow set as well as 1 lore spellbooks. The spellbooks that I feel should definitely be there are minor healing and magic whip. Combining the points of 2 and 3 would prepare characters well, and prevent humans shouting out about how they plan on conquering with their staves.

4. Beginner Back-Pack
Although giants and other such bulky characters aren't affected by this, a tutorial reward back pack (as well as instructions on how to use it) would help little pixies carry goblin loot for a while. This would expedite the training of some of the more difficult low level characters (elves and pixies) as well as prepare them to use bags of great holding down the road.

5. Merchant
Also, a mention of this wonderful and popular skill wouldn't be terrible. I know this is in the manual, but a gentle reminder might help

Bash, discuss, etc.

[Laren]

I think the low level supply store is a cool idea. Some of my alts needed things like spellbooks of magic whip and minor healing when they were low levels.

[Morphan]

Here's a skill that will make new players stay for sure.

Blackmail Salkand skill. Taught by practically anyone in the Tutorial Tower. It's a fixed 100 gold skill that pays for itself. And, it takes no skill points! The more you train, the better you are. All you need to do it type "blackmail" and you magically get a randomly generated image or video of one Salkand's evil-doings, which you may use to blackmail him for gold. The more you have in the skill, the better blackmailer you are to him and the more gold you get. It even works if he's offline! That's why he complains about lighter bank accounts lately...

The blackmail Salkand skill has a 10 minute cooldown time though. But, here's the skill-money chart.

1: 1k
2: 2k
3: 4k
4: 8k
5: etc.

You also get some exp with it. ;D



Okay, here's the serious stuff.

Tutor system is a good idea, but there should be a new player starter quest in the Tutorial quest. It gives new players some good stuff after doing a simple quest.

The Tutorial authorities have lost a precious book! Retrieve it and be rewarded! (Located in one of the doors)

Basically, you get an invis pot and see invis pot from the Quest guy. Makes stuff easier, eh? Then, you murder new player monsters (orcs, etc.) and maybe a mini-boss (moderate strength monster like Lvl 4-6) (probably need to sneak around the monster) and snatch the book and give it to the guy. There will be signs to show the new players how to do the quest (not step-by-step, but little, painstaking, annoying hints) so they know what the Quest system is like. After you finish the quest, you get a Starter Backpack (which you need to sell it after level 6, when it doesn't work). The backpack cuts the weight of items by 25% or 50%. But only works till level 6. In it are a couple of goodies (like a Survival guide). Oh, and let's make the Quest guy Tudros .

That was blueprints for a quest suggestion, not a real one.

[Lanterra]

Originally Posted by Arilou

As a result Wyvern finds more success amongst the classical gaming crowd and young players who cannot afford games that cost a fee. In the case of the latter, there's no real shortage.

The no fee, along with low system requirements is what got me playing 5 years ago. Had a few downtimes, but it's still my favourite MMORPG.

Originally Posted by Clubbz

What I -think- (note that I said THINK) is needed is a couple more low level quests that make the player explore the amita, davos and NV area. Perhaps even a more detailed tutorial tower that offers more examples and information. Just generally, a 'push' to explore the 'starting towns'(as its more than one town) maps and explore all that wyvern has to offer.

I agree, and I sometimes talking to NPCs in and around Amita it sure seems like it's already got a good background for a quest.

Originally Posted by Dragif

I agree, when you start the game out... you are totally alone it feels. You read the shouts, knowing there are other players but alas they are no where near you. The low lvls feel alone.....

I admit when I first started I felt this way, but then I was coming from only ever having played single-player games, and assumed that wyvern was just a linear game where people attempted to get from one area to another, not being able to go back, so I really didn't expect to see other players. I was pleasantly surprised. But I agree, the tutorial is a bit... devoid of life. Not necessarily players, but life in general.

Originally Posted by Shootout

I'm sure everyone remembers their first trip through Wyvern's good ol' tutorial tower (TT). It teaches the basic principles of the game, but still leaves some players at a loss. These are my ideas:

1. Make TT a multi-player map.
Once people are thrust from the warm confines of TT into the world, they see these strange characters running around. Often times I've seen people shout out "Hey, dwarf/giant/elf, come back here!" I believe that if players were exposed to others right from the get-go it would help intergrate them as well as make some friends.

2. Future Planning (Guild Info)
I believe the guild information should be provided to players before they get to hacking and slashing kobolds. I don’t believe the full bonuses and negatives should be listed but the paladins guild sign would be something like this "The paladins are a holy order of knights that vanquish their foes with swords!" This will help players gear their development towards something more successful in the Wyvern world, which leads me to my next point.

3. Low level supply store.
Upon the completion of the tutorial, the player should be teleported into a low level friendly store. In here, I believe there should be a basic sword, axe, club, and bow and arrow set as well as 1 lore spellbooks. The spellbooks that I feel should definitely be there are minor healing and magic whip. Combining the points of 2 and 3 would prepare characters well, and prevent humans shouting out about how they plan on conquering with their staves.

4. Beginner Back-Pack
Although giants and other such bulky characters aren't affected by this, a tutorial reward back pack (as well as instructions on how to use it) would help little pixies carry goblin loot for a while. This would expedite the training of some of the more difficult low level characters (elves and pixies) as well as prepare them to use bags of great holding down the road.

5. Merchant
Also, a mention of this wonderful and popular skill wouldn't be terrible. I know this is in the manual, but a gentle reminder might help

Bash, discuss, etc.

I agree with parts of this, and disagree with others.

On to my personal suggestions.

First off, I think this would go a long way. Have a magic mouth right off that say something like "Welcome to Wyvern. Please take your time in our tutorial, it will help you out. It will take awhile, but please trust us that it will be worth it. Thank you for playing and we hope you will enjoy yourself. -signed, the Wizards" It's personable, and it might make people a little more patient going through the tutorial.

Second, I thought this the first time I went through it, not even knowing what to expect from wyvern. Having seen what's out there it's even worse. The tutorial is bland. New artwork would be a blessing in the tutorial. Something that shows of some of the nicer aspects of wyvern.

Third, I think it would be good if at least some, if not the majority of, the signs should be replaced by stationary NPCs or magic mouths. It doesn't really make it more streamlined, but it would make it at least SEEM more streamlined. (Suggestions- Have NPCs of more species than just humans in the tutorial, have at least one of each playable race, giving them some exposure to all the races. Also perhaps more important points could be given by NPC versions of various wizards.)

Fourth,I saw someone mention before that perhaps it would be good to have players start with empty inventories and make them pick up the gear to use, be able to have only one weapon, one armor, etc from the tutorial. I'm betting that would require to much coding to be worth it, but if not that could be a good idea. I do think that if it is possible to have them select their weapons, it should be after a walkthrough of information about the various guilds. (perhaps if you could have switches/buttons that require a weapon to be on them to have a gate open to go farther, the player could pick up the weapon they want, drop the weapon they started with in it's place, and go on?)

Fifth, Perhaps the tutorial could promote exploration more? Not actually require the person to explore around, just make it seem like they are exploring. Have a few ideas how this might work out. Not to sure on any of them, but eh.

Sixth, I agree whole heartedly that guild info should be put into the tutorial, along with a general overview of the various types of weapons and fighting methods.

Seventh, I agree that more skills should be covered in the tutorial, including merchant. But I don't think you should be able to get that one at the low tutorial prices. It should just talked about.

Eighth, I think the current tutorial is bad on the RP aspect. I think the tutorial should drive home that there IS an RP aspect to this game. It is a world, with a story. If I might make a suggestion, I like to imagine that the new level 1 characters are the adventurous youths of the world, not content to go to places like the Jbel university. These youths are sent to NV and the adventure's guild to train. The tutorial is the beginning of their training. Perhaps something like this could be worked in, to give it more of an RP flair?

Anyway, that's what I have to say on the subject.

Hmm, well not having the ability to change the tutorial.... it's a little trickier, but I might be able to come up with a few suggestions. Let me play around for awhile longer on my low-levels and I'll come back with a few suggestions.

[Jacksparow]

I could see the reward system being like the warning system for awarding points. However this could easily be abused as the warning system often is.