Would Wyvern profit from a "cleric" sub-guild?
 

Some time ago, I had the idea to split the Paladins' Guild into two sub-guilds, much like Rangers' is already: Knights (or Fighters, or Guardians, or something of that sort) and Clerics (or Priests, or what have you). The "Knights" sub-guild would be pretty much identical to the existing guild, but the Clerics side would focus on healing and perhaps resists. (Fighting undead should also fit in there at some point :P)

Well, that was my initial idea, anyway, but when I ran it by a friend, she started picking holes. Good thing too, because there were some big flaws. For example, I tried to prevent Clerics from doing damage with spells (while still allowing them to cast resists), so they wouldn't just be another Mages' Guild, but it was gently pointed out to me that they'd need to be able to solo sometimes too. Heh.

So: is there a place for a guild centered around group healing? Perhaps it could have a bonus to Blunt instead of Swords (probably +5 or something)... I'd like thoughts on that, especially on how they would solo, and whether they should be good at resists. (Summoning is apparently against the paladin code, so no competition with Conjurers' there.)

I'm pretty sure that such a guild would need a few more spells added for fighting undead, though. There's, what, one right now?

Instead of Blunt, the same friend suggested Staves (to fill in the gap of staff-users). That might work better -- although, obviously, more mid-level staves would be needed.

This idea has been presented several times before in many different ways.

Ehh, I'm well aware of this, but previous suggestions seemed pretty limited to me. So instead of making a suggestion, I'm asking for input on what a clerics' guild would require to work. A fine distinction, I'm aware, but it is there.

Do you have any further contributions?

Another idea (from the same friend as before ;)) is to give clerics some means of defeating reapers more easily than other guilds -- this would encourage group RDing significantly, which is a current wizard goal, and give clerics some means of soloing more effectively.

This might be best accomplished by ensuring reapers are undead (I have no idea if they currently are or not, sadly) and creating a Life evocation spell or two.

From my understanding reapers are demons. It would still fall under the responsibilities of a Cleric, though. :)

Hmm, yeah... so perhaps a good spell to attack demons would fit in there... :)

A good way to make clerics be able to handle themselves on their own is to split the middle on the spam healing fix, since they are offensively limited. When they cast healing spells on themselves, they do not lose the cast timer, but combat does not negate the spell. This would only work for clerics. Nobody else.

That sounds like a good idea to me. Add in a few life spells that are good against demons and or undead and you may have a workable guild.

The only thinking justifying the improvement of healing spells for clerics only is the fact that otherwise, they don't have many good advantages. Creating new spells (unlikely) that would be particularly helpful for clerics would take away the handicap that led to the healing improvement to begin with. While to have a guild you need ONE of those improvements, its one or the other. Not both.

Personally, I think a creative bonus spell wouldn't be a super powerful healing spell. But a real regeneration spell. But since it would cause strain on the server more so than other healing spells it would be even more slim than the guild. But the idea is:

Spell: Regeneration(yes I know its taken) or Recover.
Lore: 5-7
Effect: Regenerates X*Life element/2 every second. Duration is T+1 second for each Life skill. Because it offers constant regeneration it would be significantly lowered. I was thinking because it would potentially be a high lore the initial healing would 5-10hp a second for 5-10 seconds.
Reagant:Something similarily annoying to collect as clovers.
Casting time: since the effect takes time to get the full benefit, I was thinking the casting time should be reduced from other healing spells, but still not instant.


Even though I said duration was 1 second per life skill, I was thinking every odd life skill would add 2 seconds of duration and every even life skill would add 1HP of recovery per second. So at a base of 5hp/s for 5 seconds at 20 life you'd have a spell of 15hp/sec for 25 seconds. Overall thats 375 hp but the intended use is for while you're in combat so you should be getting hurt at the same time as its recovering. It could always be tweeked so the HP amount is lower.

Cool! I like this spell idea, it's kind of a short-duration high-speed regeneration spell. Adds more variety :)

Hmm, I'm not quite sure that it would need a delay, personally, but you could be right. And I suppose the usual use-case wouldn't be affected too badly by a delay....

I don't understand. What's the difference between a paladin and a cleric?
To me a Cleric is just a paladin with no sword skill? Or a mage with no firespray.

You could make guild only spells that are incantations and enchantments then give them a -10 penalty in evocation conjuration and death magic. They would be free to cast resists heals and other things. and would have a bonus on mana, meditation. They could do damage spells that are cleric only incantation. Kind of like destruction, but "life and fire" spells instead of death.
+5 bonus in staff weapons too maybe.

I think Cleric would be like a staff weilding support based role

Mage guild gets no negs in staff for a reason.
So definitely consider Durango's question.

Indeed, that's a good point. My reason for tentatively suggesting staves was more to encourage more mid-level staves than anything else. A bonus to Blunt would also work, I expect.

I'd define a cleric as a healing-oriented support character, with the ability to destroy demons and undead more efficiently -- much like a paladin, but, as Durango said, without Sword skill. And yes, clerics should be distinguished from mages; I don't know exactly what bonuses and negatives to use for this, but clerics would tend to be weaker in damaging most monsters, much better at healing, possibly equally good at resists, and considerably better at damaging the undead and demons.

Note that you really really don't want to have a negative to Evocation, because Group Heal is an Evocation of Life... very awkward, that, but oh well.

New spells of one sort or another seem almost essential, which is a bit of a pity, since those would likely delay it further... I suppose that can't be helped. I guess it's good to keep a balance between generic monster-damaging spells on the one hand, and specialized demon/undead-slaying spells on the other.

Maybe group heal could be changed to incantation if clerics were created. The reason I said -10 evocation was so that they couldn't cast firespray and other typical mage spells.

Also I could see a cleric using a mace, which are blunt weapons, but most blunt weapons are clubs. A very strange choice I would think for a sub group of the paladin's guild.

Spam healing stonies don't sound too fun to me...

If there were clerics, I would be a dwarf cleric. But clerics would be excellent, they could have a long distance heal.
Like how fireball works, instead of burning your enemies and loot to the ground. The long distance heal could heal your team mates or allies..and maybe clerics can repair armour too..haha

Cleric of this caliber would be OP.

If you had a mage friend, you could RD with little fear of death, considering you would kill undead and demons apparently super fast as well as be able to heal yourself constantly. If you were high enough level you could be just as strong damage wise as most other characters but have insane healing ability.

And if you're not too worried about the level thing, because high levels are hard to come by now? This cleric branch would give people the ability to jump to those levels and have that ability. The game would become 45% mages, 45% clerics, and 10% rebels trying to make/are content with what they have. Cookie cutter classes rule.

I was under the impression Rding was supposed to stay challenging and dangerous, this cleric would ruin that.

Dont get me wrong, I would love a healing specific/cleric class. I've expressed this in game before as i'm sure a lot of others have. It would just have to be..perfect. I feel like for a cleric class to be utilized..Wyvern would have to be more..team based. Which its not, thats not Wyvern. I wouldnt expect people to expect me to sit behind them casting group heal over and over and over, wasting countless reagents without any true idea of what their HP is. Its impractical and tiring. Adding a cleric class, or healing specific class into the game is asking for a lot of very specific things to be put into the game.

And if its not a pure healing class, you're left with a mace/staff using paladin with greater healing abilities as well as spells that rock undead and demons..

Lets face it, having healing specific classes requires team based gameplay, or the healing aspect is useless. Wyvern has its "team" moments, but doesn't have the ability to capitalize on what a healing class would be used for.. Wyvern wasn't built to hold healers.